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Acceptable rate of climb and G forces (Read 1043 times)
Dec 15th, 2012 at 9:30pm

stephan   Offline
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NOW...(man,typers cramp!!!)When you fly most of the stock jets in  FS2002 and FS9,they default ay 1800 fpm climb on auto-pilot.What IS the ACTUAL average for larger airliners?//And,what is the acceptable impact in Gs' when landing for larger airliners and...for Lear sized jets.Thanx gents.//stephan / 'Altitude With Attitude!'      NOW I'm done for this round of questions!Luck you!!!
 
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Reply #1 - Dec 16th, 2012 at 4:04am

Fozzer   Offline
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For all that sort of information, I read the Aircraft Owners Manual, (as one should, before pressing the starter button!... Wink...).
All the operating parameters to be complied with are contained there for each individual aircraft.

Some of this information is often available on the Knee-board for quick reference...

http://www.cessna150.net/information/perspec.html

Paul...Climb rate = max 670 FPM at sea level for my little Cessna 150.
 

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Reply #2 - Dec 17th, 2012 at 2:59am

jetprop   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 4:04am:
For all that sort of information, I read the Aircraft Owners Manual, (as one should, before pressing the starter button!... Wink...).
All the operating parameters to be complied with are contained there for each individual aircraft.

Some of this information is often available on the Knee-board for quick reference...

http://www.cessna150.net/information/perspec.html

Paul...Climb rate = max 670 FPM at sea level for my little Cessna 150.

Yeah...but they are talking about the UNMODIFIED Cessna 150 Fozzer,not your rocket-propelled gunship. Grin
 

...
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Reply #3 - Dec 17th, 2012 at 3:28am

pete   Offline
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It's not so much rate of climb but climb speed that matters. Weight and climate conditions will affect ROC dramatically so climb speed is the factor that the airliners will fly by. (same with descent)

240-275kts is about the norm from what I gather.

From another forum (professional pilots) ROC/ROD - is a minimum of 500ft/m and a max of 2500ft/m


Some very useful info here
 

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Reply #4 - Dec 17th, 2012 at 3:29am

Fozzer   Offline
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jetprop wrote on Dec 17th, 2012 at 2:59am:
Fozzer wrote on Dec 16th, 2012 at 4:04am:
For all that sort of information, I read the Aircraft Owners Manual, (as one should, before pressing the starter button!... Wink...).
All the operating parameters to be complied with are contained there for each individual aircraft.

Some of this information is often available on the Knee-board for quick reference...

http://www.cessna150.net/information/perspec.html

Paul...Climb rate = max 670 FPM at sea level for my little Cessna 150.

Yeah...but they are talking about the UNMODIFIED Cessna 150 Fozzer, not your rocket-propelled gunship. Grin


.... Grin... Grin... Grin...!

My little rocket-propelled gunship; Cessna 150 Aerobat, fits in the category of; "Experimental", Jet... Wink... Wink...!

...(...bordering on; "Experimental Jet"!...)... Shocked...!

Paul...light the fuse, and retire!... Grin...!

 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #5 - Dec 20th, 2012 at 2:36pm

C   Offline
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pete wrote on Dec 17th, 2012 at 3:28am:
From another forum (professional pilots) ROC/ROD - is a minimum of 500ft/m and a max of 2500ft/m


Indeed, you ought to inform ATC if you can't maintain 500fpm, as they will be assuming this in their forward planning. I've never heard of having too great a rate of climb, as the airspace should be clear for you to attain your cleared level as soon as you are cleared to it. Lowering the ROC/ROD as you approach your cleared level, partly for passenger comfort, partly so you don't end up with an uncomfortable TCAS alert on any traffic cruising directly above, is fairly normal in my experience.
 
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Reply #6 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 1:51am

stephan   Offline
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OK...seems like y'all are talking small prop craft.I'm talking 747,777,737,Lear 45...Lear being the smallest.I seldom fly props.I DO like them,but I want to get from KCLE to KEDW in a few hours.Not all day flying.I noticed AI AC (big jets) will have a ROC of 3200fpm and greater.Cant figure what is the acceptable average.As far as G forces of impact to rwy in a 747,etc...none of the data sheets speak of G forces.They give ROD.Sometimes I land a little heavy..., 3.2 Gs or so.Seems a bit much. // stephan/ 'Altitude With Attitude!'  Cool
 
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Reply #7 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 6:02am

expat   Offline
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stephan wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 1:51am:
OK...seems like y'all are talking small prop craft.I'm talking 747,777,737,Lear 45...Lear being the smallest.I seldom fly props.I DO like them,but I want to get from KCLE to KEDW in a few hours.Not all day flying.I noticed AI AC (big jets) will have a ROC of 3200fpm and greater.Cant figure what is the acceptable average.As far as G forces of impact to rwy in a 747,etc...none of the data sheets speak of G forces.They give ROD.Sometimes I land a little heavy..., 3.2 Gs or so.Seems a bit much. // stephan/ 'Altitude With Attitude!'  Cool



3.2G's at landing any I would be ripping the piss and tell you to let the F/O do the landing next time. The 737NG spits out an automatic heavy landing report at 2.1G's. I would have to do a hard landing check. The following is for the 737-800:

"For landing at or below maximum design landing weight on airplanes with flight data
recording systems capable of at least eight (8) samples per second, the following can be
used: An indication of a hard landing on the main landing gear is a peak recorded vertical
acceleration that exceeds 2.1 G (incremental 1.1 G). This vertical accelerometer data must
be measured by the flight data recorder accelerometer at a data sampling rate of at least
eight (8) samples per second. This vertical acceleration G-level threshold is valid for a
conventional landing with impact with no more than two (2) degrees of airplane roll, main
landing gear touchdown first and normal rotation onto the nose gear. For a hard landing
that is a hard nose landing or is accompanied by more than two (2) degrees of roll at the
time of main landing gear impact, the recorded peak acceleration can be significantly less
than the 2.1 G, but a hard landing inspection may still be necessary.

(d) For a landing at or below maximum design landing weight on airplanes with flight data
recording systems capable of at least sixteen (16) samples per second, the following can
be used: An indication of a hard landing on the main landing gear is a peak recorded
vertical acceleration that exceeds 2.2 G (incremental 1.2 G). This vertical accelerometer
data must be measured by the flight data recorder accelerometer at a data sampling rate of
at least sixteen (16) samples per second. This vertical acceleration G-level threshold is
valid for a conventional landing with impact with no more than two (2) degrees of airplane
roll, main landing gear touchdown first and normal rotation onto the nose gear. For a hard
landing that is a hard nose landing or is accompanied by more than two (2) degrees of roll
at the time of main landing gear impact, the recorded peak acceleration can be significantly
less than the 2.1 G, but a hard landing inspection may still be necessary."

If the aircraft registers or the pilot reports a heavy landing, then it is broken down in to phase checks. Depending on the figure reached, it could involve a walk around looking for ripples to jacking the aircraft up for retract checks or gear replacement for example. If you want to know about the individual phases, then ask, but it is very in depth and long.

Matt
 

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Reply #8 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 5:02pm

C   Offline
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stephan wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 1:51am:
OK...seems like y'all are talking small prop craft.


I wasn't. I was talking fairly heavy jet stuff... Wink Grin Heavily loaded, and in the right temperatures, 500fpm will be an aspiration!

On to Matt's point on landing, you mention the max G loading on landing, but does the 737 documentation specify a max RoD on touchdown? I know the VC10 certainly does (can't remember it!).

I did a 4G landing once. I won't mention the type, other than that we taxied clear of the runway, re-secured the canopy, and took off again! Grin
 
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Reply #9 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 4:58am

expat   Offline
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C wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 5:02pm:
stephan wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 1:51am:
OK...seems like y'all are talking small prop craft.


I wasn't. I was talking fairly heavy jet stuff... Wink Grin Heavily loaded, and in the right temperatures, 500fpm will be an aspiration!

On to Matt's point on landing, you mention the max G loading on landing, but does the 737 documentation specify a max RoD on touchdown? I know the VC10 certainly does (can't remember it!).

I did a 4G landing once. I won't mention the type, other than that we taxied clear of the runway, re-secured the canopy, and took off again! Grin



Sorry Charlie, in the words of "Goose", that is pilot shit. I just wait for the ACARS printer to spit out a heavy landing report and then act upon it (also take the piss a little). The 737 does not actually have a max landing weight. It has a recommended max of 65550 kg's which to all intents an purposes is treated as a max. If it was all up with full tanks, it can land with only take off and circuit fuel missing. The deciding factor then is the touchdown G loading the aircraft experiences, thought the 9 out of 10 pilots need a very long runway to pull it off. This year we had three medical diversions to Brest on the way to Mallorca, all over weight and all landings well below 2.1G Mind you Brest is just under 2 miles long............

Matt
 

PETA ... People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #10 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 2:54pm

C   Offline
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Yeah, fair enough. The poor old '10 has about 38,000-45,000kg difference between MTOW and MLW! Occasionally it operates at or around MLW, but not often! Grin
 
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Reply #11 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 12:41am

stephan   Offline
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Holy beJesus!..those are wolf pelts on that prop!!! Cool! At any rate...you gents are talking WAY above my head here,but it makes for interesting reading.What I AM getting from what I THINK I understand is what G would be acceptable in one condition (quarter load of fuel) would not be acceptable for a landing with a nearly full load of fuel.So,my best bet would be to 'skim' the runway to a stop.Guess I'll use my ILS till I get a visual,then do my own flying.Means I'll be running a longer distance at a lower altitude till I tag the rwy,but it should make for a smoother landing.Some airports make that idea tough to practice when they're located near the mountains because my flairing technique has a lot to be desired.OK...Thanks a bunch guys.Love hearing y'all talk all that tech stuff even though most of it goes way over my head. Have a good'n! //stephan  'Altitude With Attitude!'   Cool
 
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Reply #12 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 4:03am

expat   Offline
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stephan wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 12:41am:
Holy beJesus!..those are wolf pelts on that prop!!! Cool! At any rate...you gents are talking WAY above my head here,but it makes for interesting reading.What I AM getting from what I THINK I understand is what G would be acceptable in one condition (quarter load of fuel) would not be acceptable for a landing with a nearly full load of fuel.So,my best bet would be to 'skim' the runway to a stop.Guess I'll use my ILS till I get a visual,then do my own flying.Means I'll be running a longer distance at a lower altitude till I tag the rwy,but it should make for a smoother landing.Some airports make that idea tough to practice when they're located near the mountains because my flairing technique has a lot to be desired.OK...Thanks a bunch guys.Love hearing y'all talk all that tech stuff even though most of it goes way over my head. Have a good'n! //stephan  'Altitude With Attitude!'   Cool



When I came across the picture, I could not resist it Grin Grin

Yes, what you say you are understanding is pretty much what we are talking about. However, the lighter the touch the nicer the landing is for your passengers......Keep at it, practice makes perfect Smiley

Matt
 

PETA ... People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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