Simviation Forum - Learjet fatality...

Dec 12^th, 2012 at 9:34am

Fozzer Offline
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246789/Jenni-Riveras-plane-hit-ground-n...

I wonder what went wrong there?

Paul.

Anyone know her?

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Reply #1 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 5:19pm

wahubna Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 9:34am:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246789/Jenni-Riveras-plane-hit-ground-n...

I wonder what went wrong there?

Paul.

Anyone know her?

Being a Lear pilot my father has heard of all the 'common' crash reasons for Lears. Depending on the model and S/N, some had a nasty pitch instability at high service speeds and could enter into uncommanded dives or climbs or even lose the horizontal stabilizer. The other is O2 system failure which has been a high-profile crash cause before. Finally, uncommanded spoiler deployment. Over the summer my old man had one spoiler do an uncommanded partial deployment, thankfully it was small enough they could compensate fast enough. The spoiler deployment issue has caused a few 'death spiral' crashes. Usually this failure has the one side fully deploy, at cruise this can flip the Lear over and immediately put it into a power dive with in about 1 second so it is unstoppable (unless it did not fully deploy Smiley

).

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Reply #2 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 6:08pm

wahubna Offline
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UPDATE:
Dad found out it was a Lear 25 which frankly was a dangerous Learjet.

He said 25's suffered from 'Mach Tuck' (the pitch problem mentioned earlier) as well as the O2 problem I mentioned, and 'Mach separation' on/at/over the ailerons as the 25 did not have the spoiler controls that the later models gained.

Plenty of major problems to choose from.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #3 - Dec 13^th, 2012 at 6:33am

Fozzer Offline
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Many thanks for the write-up, Adam!

Some excellent explanations.

So many serious problems with such a popular business Jet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learjet

Paul.

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Reply #4 - Dec 13^th, 2012 at 9:20am

aussiewannabe Offline
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http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/wreckage-jenni-riveras-plane-found-mexico/st...
"Rivera's plane, a 43-year-old Learjet 25, had been in a previous accident in 2005, when it experienced a fuel system malfunction, resulting in one wing weighing more than the other. In addition, Univision News discovered that the plane's pilots had logged more than 19 hours on shift, violating commercial airline regulations."

http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2012-12-11/mexico-tests-dna-jenni-rivera-pl...
"According to the National Transportation Safety Board, the twin-turbojet was substantially damaged in a 2005 landing mishap at Amarillo International Airport in Texas. It hit a runway distance marker after losing directional control."

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Reply #5 - Dec 13^th, 2012 at 10:25am

ViperPilot Offline
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That is a very interesting document...

(Taken from Paul's link on the story)

The plane took off @ 0330 from Monterrey. With a VFR ONLY commercial ticket (the image)... violation of Night VFR Rules?

Also... look at the last sentence on the Certificate... does FAR Part 135 apply?

Shocked

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Reply #6 - Dec 13^th, 2012 at 4:25pm

C Offline
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ViperPilot wrote on Dec 13^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

The plane took off @ 0330 from Monterrey. With a VFR ONLY commercial ticket (the image)... violation of Night VFR Rules?

Also... look at the last sentence on the Certificate... does FAR Part 135 apply?

Shocked

This is just the FAA part though. The same narrative also says to be used in conjunction with Mexico Pilot License No xxxxxxx etc.

So although a document bound to be in all the papers due the condition it was found, and, at face value, its controversial content, possibly a bit of a red herring. The Lear is also a 2 pilot aeroplane, so it's entirely possible he was co, and operating to the privileges of the Captain's license (whether legally or not is another matter).

We shall see.

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Reply #7 - Dec 13^th, 2012 at 6:10pm

ViperPilot Offline
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C wrote on Dec 13^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

ViperPilot wrote on Dec 13^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

The plane took off @ 0330 from Monterrey. With a VFR ONLY commercial ticket (the image)... violation of Night VFR Rules?

Also... look at the last sentence on the Certificate... does FAR Part 135 apply?

Shocked

This is just the FAA part though. The same narrative also says to be used in conjunction with Mexico Pilot License No xxxxxxx etc.

So although a document bound to be in all the papers due the condition it was found, and, at face value, its controversial content, possibly a bit of a red herring. The Lear is also a 2 pilot aeroplane, so it's entirely possible he was co, and operating to the privileges of the Captain's license (whether legally or not is another matter).

We shall see.

C,

Thanks for the clarification. In any case, a very tricky investigation awaits...

Shocked

[
"I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..."
-- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen

P4 3.0 SINGLE CORE, 2GB Corsair RAM, ATI Radeon 4650 1GB, OCZ 600w PSU, Samsung 160GB HD XP SP3

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Reply #8 - Dec 14^th, 2012 at 3:33am

Fozzer Offline
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Latest News...>>>

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/owners-past-pilots-age-raise-suspic...

Paul.

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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Reply #9 - Dec 14^th, 2012 at 6:58am

DaveSims Offline
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C wrote on Dec 13^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

ViperPilot wrote on Dec 13^th, 2012 at 10:25am:

The plane took off @ 0330 from Monterrey. With a VFR ONLY commercial ticket (the image)... violation of Night VFR Rules?

Also... look at the last sentence on the Certificate... does FAR Part 135 apply?

Shocked

This is just the FAA part though. The same narrative also says to be used in conjunction with Mexico Pilot License No xxxxxxx etc.

So although a document bound to be in all the papers due the condition it was found, and, at face value, its controversial content, possibly a bit of a red herring. The Lear is also a 2 pilot aeroplane, so it's entirely possible he was co, and operating to the privileges of the Captain's license (whether legally or not is another matter).

We shall see.

I would not base too much on this photo, you'd find something similar if I ever crashed as well. I think I still have a copy of my student license from over 10 years ago riding around in my flight bag. Some of us are just bad at cleaning them out. Wink

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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