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New Arrow (Read 1242 times)
Sep 18th, 2012 at 3:39pm

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Good afternoon all... Smiley

Perhaps some good news...

http://www.globalnews.ca/ndp+to+meet+with+avro+arrow+advocates/6442716038/story....

I am sure the government will back this one as the tend is swinging to build our own military equipment and employ Canadians.

There were many modifications for the CF105 Arrow from bubble canopy to having STOL and Hovering Capabilities like the Hawker Siddeley Harrier which was still a dream.  Far too many to mention.

Jan Zurakowski when he test flew the aircraft said it had far more maneuverability than the aircraft was given credit for and much much more potential.

It was not the cost that killed the Avro Arrow, C102 Jetliner, several ships and tanks but our allies who did not want Canada to be a major player on the world stage.

Thankfully things are turning around here... Wink
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 4:12pm

C   Offline
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Flying Trucker wrote on Sep 18th, 2012 at 3:39pm:
It was not the cost that killed the Avro Arrow...

... but our allies who did not want Canada to be a major player on the world stage.



Any serious plan to resurrect a 50+ year old aircraft would surely confirm their view! Wink Grin
 
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Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 4:32pm

Steve M   Offline
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Of course I'm all for it. The biggest argument I could find against the F-35 was that it can't communicate in the high Arctic. Well the F-18 were refitted with radios that could. The cost was a bubble in the fuselage that made room for satelite coms. The Arrow, as it was, should have enough space inside to accommodate satelite coms and not sacrifice top end Mach speeds due to a bubble. All this making me wonder why a guy on a dogsled in the high Arctic, with a satelite phone, can telephone anywhere in the world.
  I suppose though, all the highest and most pious will have to kick the can back and forth for a while.
I think to revive the Arrow would be a good thing.  Cool 


PS Resurrecting a 50 year old aircraft isn't the intention, but building on the idea, rather. Ford did it with the Mustang and Chevy did it with the Camaro quite successfully.
 
...
Flying with twins is a lot of fun..
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Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 4:46pm

wahubna   Offline
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Been discussed  Wink
/yabb?num=1347580849

Remember guys, I am working on the ressurection of an aircraft and maintaining life for another ressurected aircraft...both of which are significantly simpler and have significantly more useful drawings, reports, pieces, tooling, and whole airframes available for said ressurection.
Jesus might have brought a man back from the dead, but it takes a bit more to bring a plane back  Grin

Side note: WHERE ON EARTH IS THAT $#%# REPORT #4?!?!  Grin Grin

Adam....losing my mind
 
‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky
...
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Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 5:20pm

BlackAce   Offline
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Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked  OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG LET IT BE TRUE!!!!!!! THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ARROW FLYING!!!!!! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
 
Lenovo Y570: Intel Core i7-2670QM Processor( 2.2GHz 1333MHz 6MB) Nvidia 555M graphics, 8GB Memory/RAM 1TB of space
...
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Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 5:29pm

C   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Sep 18th, 2012 at 4:32pm:
PS Resurrecting a 50 year old aircraft isn't the intention, but building on the idea, rather. Ford did it with the Mustang and Chevy did it with the Camaro quite successfully. 


And therein lies the problem. It would have to be a completely new aeroplane, which, realistically, only two/three nations on earth could afford single handedly (USA/China/Russia. France would chirpily have a go too, but not quite manage it). Canada probably not being one of them!
 
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Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 5:48pm

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I do believe this would have to be a new aircraft...twin engine, stealth...the whole bit... Smiley

We build our own surface ships now, some land vehicles and military aircraft would not be out of the question.

Our economy is growing, the country has increased national pride in it's military and we have a good government that is increasing our military.

The Arctic is Canadian and we mean to keep it... Wink
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 5:48pm

Steve M   Offline
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This will be my last post on the Avrow Arrow. It was money that killed the Arrow. Canada needed the support of the allied nations. There is no way a population of 17 milion people could have financed that project. A population that includes many thousands of children that aren't working yet and a population of seniors that aren't working anymore and a population on government assistance, leaving Canada with about 9 million taxpayers plus or minus. The advance of the F-35 is soley dependant on multiple countries supporting the aircraft. So yes the allied countries weren't willing to anti up on the Arrow and that means funding dried up. Which translates to no money. We all should know, no money is no ride.. Smiley
 
...
Flying with twins is a lot of fun..
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Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 5:57pm

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Hi Steve... Smiley

Not sure what is happening in your area but things are booming here, more opportunities for everyone.

Being retired I see folks just retiring still doing part time work to give themselves something to do, not because they need the money.

We have the knowledge and technology here now, the work force as well.
The government can keep the cost down, it is really not rocket science.

Have a great day... Wink
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #9 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 12:45am

SaultFresh   Offline
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I'm agreeing with Doug on this Tongue I mean, working out of Buttonville, I get to see these people with their fancy cars, and I get to fly over some fairly large houses. Having grown up in Cambridge myself, I can say with certainty just how much Galt alone has grown. Throw in Milton, and you can't deny that everything down here has grown in the last decade. I'd love to see a modern Arrow come to fruition. Also, I'm not sure where you got 9 million tax payers from :/ Was that supposed to be the current amount of tax payers, or the amount from 50 years ago? Canada has a population of just under $35 million, and my thoughts are that that number will continue to keep growing as long as our borders remain open to immigrants. Anyhow, this "youngen" remains hopeful Tongue
- Some other guy named Doug  Wink
 
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Reply #10 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 1:10pm

Steve M   Offline
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SaultFresh wrote on Sep 20th, 2012 at 12:45am:
I'm agreeing with Doug on this Tongue I mean, working out of Buttonville, I get to see these people with their fancy cars, and I get to fly over some fairly large houses. Having grown up in Cambridge myself, I can say with certainty just how much Galt alone has grown. Throw in Milton, and you can't deny that everything down here has grown in the last decade. I'd love to see a modern Arrow come to fruition. Also, I'm not sure where you got 9 million tax payers from :/ Was that supposed to be the current amount of tax payers, or the amount from 50 years ago? Canada has a population of just under $35 million, and my thoughts are that that number will continue to keep growing as long as our borders remain open to immigrants. Anyhow, this "youngen" remains hopeful Tongue
- Some other guy named Doug  Wink



I meant the population 50 years ago.  Smiley
 
...
Flying with twins is a lot of fun..
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Reply #11 - Sep 21st, 2012 at 8:29am

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Thanks Doug "SaultFresh"... Smiley

Gosh darn I wish we remembered you were at Buttonville.

We were just there on Wednesday this week.

Have you been to Aviation World lately?

Nice simulator set up but their stock for FSX hardly exists.

Almost have to order on line now to get anything.

Have a great day... Wink

P.S.  Real Estate here is booming and they are building lots
        of large multi-million dollar homes from stone and
        brick...three or four car garages...acre lots...very
        nice... Smiley
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #12 - Sep 25th, 2012 at 2:25pm

SaultFresh   Offline
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I guess I don't post often enough Tongue and was that Wednesday the 19th, or tomorrow? I was flying around on the 19th, got a student recommended for his PPL flight test that day Tongue I haven't been to Aviation World recently, but I do drive by that area every weekend. I remember them having a pretty awesome simulator set-up... four screens I think and the whole control set up... much better than my joystick Tongue I'm not fully sure where "here" is Tongue but I can believe it nonetheless. Just from the downwind of Runway 15 at CYKZ, if you have to extend it for any extra length of time, you'll fly over some neighbourhoods, everyone has a pool, some people have small tennis courts, or half a basketball court... one place had a full basketball court :/
 
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Reply #13 - Sep 26th, 2012 at 3:32pm

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Hi Doug... Smiley
Will not be back to Buttonville for a month or so.

You are right about Aviation World and their simulator unit, very nice.
They just do not carry the stock for FSX or FS2004 like they used to.

I know just the area you are talking about, very nice homes... Smiley

It has been awhile since I went into the canteen or the Prop Shop at Buttonville as we like to eat off the airfield.

Has the Prop Shop got much of a selection for FSX or FS2004?
I know at one time they did not carry anything for flight simulation of any kind.

Have a great day... Wink


 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 2:36am

SaultFresh   Offline
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Well, I'll still be here Tongue although I'm going to be working "the Graveyard shift", so to speak, so I won't get to see much daylight.
I don't think there's many places these days carrying a whole lot for any of the Flight Sims. I doubt the Prop Shop carries anything like that.
I can't blame you for wanting to eat off airport... We tend to try and avoid eating the food from the cafe at the airport... it just doesn't seem trustworthy. Besides, there's much better selections nearby. Too bad you're not going to be flying in today, I think it's going to be a good one.
Take it easy.
 
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Reply #15 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 7:09am

RAFSB   Offline
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Good morning,
Talking about how Galt has grown over the years. I was born in Galt, raised in Montreal and moved back to Ontario in the 60s. I am now retired and living in Cambridge (Hespler). I live less than a 1/4 mile from the 401 and remember that nothing existed except for farm land between me and Babcock-wilcock back then.
I love flight sim, FSX and now turn my hobby into volunteering.
At the Waterloo Regional Airport is a building. The Cadet Youth Developement Center. (822 Tudor Squadron). The second floor is where I volunteer on Monday evenings. The Regional Community Aerospace Facility. There is nothing else like it in Canada. We teach basic flight, advanced flight, ATC, Robotics, etc. There are over 40 Flight Sim stations all Lan conected plus an UAV simulator and a ship simulator. Over the past month I have been in contact with Lockheed-Martin to see if I could get one or two copies of Prepar3d for the Aerospace Facility. As of Friday last week, Lockheed-Martin has agreed to help us out and have donated not one or two copies but one hundred copies.
Here is a link to the PDF about the Aerospace Facility.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48305658/cydc%20book%20aug%202012.pdf
Anyone is welcome to come out and take a look
 
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Reply #16 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 1:03pm

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Hi Doug... Smiley

Will try to get in before Christmas... Wink
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #17 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 1:07pm

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Hi RAFSB... Smiley
Right glad to hear from you... Wink

The old girl and I found that Link absolutely wonderful and we are passing it around at the Royal Canadian Air Force Association, the Royal Canadian Legion, the National Air Force Museum of Canada, many fellow aviators and folks at several flying clubs we frequent.

Looking forward for a visit... Wink
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #18 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 4:24pm

SaultFresh   Offline
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You should definitely try Doug, it could be the last Christmas this place sees :/ (although, still no official word on anything from anyone except Seneca College, who's moving to Peterborough).
RAFSB I've never been inside that building, but I know exactly where it is Tongue (hard to miss when you're driving to WWFC). It sounds really cool with what's going on there. I too may come visit one day if it is open to the public Tongue and if I ever have a day off.
 
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Reply #19 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 8:55am

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Thanks Doug... Smiley

Another wonderful General Aviation Airport falls to the Condo Developers as if there is no other spot to build them... Roll Eyes

Just goes to show Canadian Politicians know nothing about and care less about Aviation in this country... Lips Sealed
 
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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