Simviation Forum - A stark lesson....

Aug 9^th, 2012 at 10:46am

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

...in "Density Altitude"...>>>

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news/plane_crash_filmed_from_inside_cockpit

Learnt the hard way!...

Paul.

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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Reply #1 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 3:18pm

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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This is the entire video from takeoff. It is apparent before they even get off the ground they are way overloaded for the altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDu0jYiz-v8

Here is a video of another crash under similar circumstances. In this video, unfortunately they did not survive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_8AHC9Xus0&feature=related

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #2 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 4:29pm

wahubna Offline
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WMU Bronco
Michigan

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We were just looking at that video at work. I cant believe the pilot went ahead after such a long take off roll.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #3 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 7:47pm

beaky Offline
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Newark, NJ USA

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No, no, guys... it was a downdraft!

Forget that he used up almost a mile to get airborne, failed in his first attempt to then get out of ground effect, then continued towards higher terrain and tall trees, all the while yanking back on the yoke over and over (which did not help the airplane climb in the slightest)... it was a downdraft that forced them into the trees (and dang, those trees just came out of nowhere, dontcha know!).

Roll Eyes

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Reply #4 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 9:17pm

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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Notice it was the passenger that mentions a downdraft. If you pay attention, you will realize what that it actually was a stall. Most non pilot passengers would probaby characterize the sudden drop from a stall as a downdraft.

Dave...flat lander for life!

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #5 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 11:05pm

beaky Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

Notice it was the passenger that mentions a downdraft. If you pay attention, you will realize what that it actually was a stall. Most non pilot passengers would probaby characterize the sudden drop from a stall as a downdraft.

Dave...flat lander for life!

I don't think he fully stalled it, but it hardly matters. It was not going to out-climb the approaching obstacles.
I recall hearing that the pilot backed up this "downdraft" thing (it would make sense- he lied to himself, and the airplane... why not his pax and the press?), but again I might be wrong.
I also notice that the one time you see the mixture knob, it appears to be set full rich (!), but he may have leaned it as the "takeoff" roll started.

I say he didn't quite stall it because you see him try a few times to get it to climb by sheer wishful thinking and lots of up elevator, but as the inevitable becomes clear, he stops that and just tries to steer the plane into as gentle a crash as possible. I give him credit for that- probably saved all their lives.

In any case, there was no way he was going to get out of there along the path he chose... maybe there was no safe path at all , given the DA (around 10,000). Best bet would have been to make two trips, or go another time.

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Reply #6 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 5:30am

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Density Altitude.... Shocked

...!

Always a good reminder for me when Sim flying in and out of Big Bear City Airfield (L35), (Southern California), high up in the San Bernardino Mountains, in my little Cessna 150 when touring Southern California!....>>>

http://www.bigbearcityairport.com/moutain-flying/density-altitude-youre-higher-t...

That climb over the towering San Bernardino mountain range from the Los Angeles valley, on approach, and take-off, always involves a tightly clenched Bum, a prayer (or three), and judicious use of the Mixture Control to achieve as much power as possible!

An excellent Sim test under varying atmospheric conditions!

Paul...survived...so far!... Wink

...!

..remember..you can always abandon the flight... Wink

...!

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.

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Reply #7 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 9:38am

Bud Greene Offline
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Up, up in the air...

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I'm guessing the pilot was 'George of the Jungle' and he overloaded the plane with his elephant Shep.
Watch out for that treeeeeeeee! Tongue

NOTE: Had anyone perished I would NOT be poking fun. Lips Sealed

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Reply #8 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 12:17pm

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Small, General Aviation, piston prop aircraft, can be tricky little creatures, under certain conditions, and can easily catch-out the unwary!
Their simplicity can be misleading!

The "Mixture" control system works very well in FS 2004 when used correctly, but I miss the realistic Carburettor Heat" effects, replicating Carburettor Icing problems, when fitted.

Paul.

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.

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