Simviation Forum - And Yet Another Interview...

Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:08pm

ViperPilot Offline
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This one might hit a little closer to home, since it was conducted by another FS site:

http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&folder=/AVSI...

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Reply #1 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:25pm

andy190 Offline
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Joshua Howard sounds & acts like a Lips Sealed

.

This what he said when he was asked about why third-party wasn't allowed:

Quote:

we needed to increase our investment in other, more important areas.

It's a game:
Quote:

However, our data reinforces that Flight already has a much wider audience profile than past products in the franchise, and those people are asking for us to improve the product in a variety of other ways (many of which are about improving the quality of the game, like adding leaderboards, multiplayer missions, or new challenge types).

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Reply #2 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:38pm

matthewdev Offline
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ViperPilot wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:08pm:

This one might hit a little closer to home, since it was conducted by another FS site:

http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&folder=/AVSI...

Not sounding promising for us 'simmers.' I can understand that they need to work out what is best able to keep the product viable, but I imagine my home State of Tasmania is going to be something I will be kept waiting a long long time for Sad

Flightsim Addons for Tasmania and Beyond

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Reply #3 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:52pm

andy190 Offline
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matthewdev wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:38pm:

... but I imagine my home State of Tasmania is going to be something I will be kept waiting a long long time for Sad

Tasmania will probably come ahead of New Zealand though. Sad

(Beeping Auzzies Wink

)

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Reply #4 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 12:10am

matthewdev Offline
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andy190 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:52pm:

matthewdev wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:38pm:

... but I imagine my home State of Tasmania is going to be something I will be kept waiting a long long time for Sad

Tasmania will probably come ahead of New Zealand though. Sad

(Beeping Auzzies Wink

)

I will refrain from Kiwi jokes right now even though it is very tempting Grin

Flightsim Addons for Tasmania and Beyond

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Reply #5 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 12:21am

machineman9 Offline
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The general idea is to make a game that is suitable for all users... But they seem to be missing out on the fact that not all features have to be exploited by every single person.

If they did long haul flights, it would not appeal to the casual gamers - But they would not be forced into doing those flights. If they don't like them... Don't do them!

It's like a smartphone... It has a lot of features, it has a lot of apps, games and wallpapers... But for those people who want an electronic talking machine, they can still just use the phone feature and nothing else.

I don't think they quite get that point.

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Reply #6 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 12:23am

andy190 Offline
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One place Australia doesn't come ahead of New Zealand is Sport. Tongue

Guess who won the Rugby World Cup. Tongue

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Reply #7 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:45am

Fozzer Offline
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Quote:
"If returning to Flight Simulator makes sense again sometime in the future, I am confident that Microsoft would not ignore that possibility, but it’s not something that is being actively considered today".
End Quote.

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Reply #8 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 3:19pm

Wing Nut Offline
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That whole interview boils down to one line.

"We don't give a rat's ass about 'hardcore simmers' and if you don't like it, too bad..."

Screw MS... Angry

Even if they did offer an FS11, I'm sure I'd buy it at this point...

Can you say "SPIN..." Roll Eyes

Quote:

TA: We took a very informal poll of third party developers for MS FSX / FS9, and found that many feel that they have been unfairly treated by you and your team in the lead up to FLIGHT. Given the almost universal nature of the replies, we conclude this is not an isolated sentiment. That being the case, do you have any intentions to rebuild MS’ relations with these developers? Or, do you even perceive that a problem with 3PD’s exist?

JH: It was a very difficult decision to put our 3rd party development plans on hold when we did, which I believe was the primary cause for the frustration these fine developers have had. Ultimately, though, we decided that with our available resources, as a business, we needed to increase our investment in other, more important areas. As a team we initially wanted to do it all – deliver an experience that could bring whole new audiences into flight, but also deliver all of the features the simmer holds dear, including support for the 3rd party ecosystem. The team started working with some 3rd parties, so when we had to back away from them it was bound to upset some of them. We do intend to reach back out to these developers, as well as to new developers, as we work to scale up our content offerings. I don’t have any concerns about our ability to build effective relationships with 3rd party content developers, whether they are from the existing pool of usual suspects or new faces.

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Reply #9 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 3:49pm

JoBee Offline
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Before we get too caught up in anything said in that interview I think it important to remember...

pete wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 5:18pm:

& this is comes after the MS Flight project leader specifically told us all in a room in December that it would be 'Hawaii only' ......

Can't always believe everything you read on the Internet.

cheers,
Joe

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Reply #10 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 3:56pm

andy190 Offline
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I believe what you mean JoBee is that you can't always trust everything that comes out of Joshua Howard's mouth.

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Reply #11 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 4:05pm

jetprop Offline
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Wait,so,M$ essentialy says:

We have put hold on the 3'd party development because we don't want them to stop us earning more money.
Of course this upsets some of the ones involved.
If the game will decrease in popularity we will need to get some developers to make lots of money for us.

Just my interpetation.

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Reply #12 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 5:54pm

Cusance Offline
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jetprop wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 4:05pm:

Wait,so,M$ essentialy says:

We have put hold on the 3'd party development because we don't want them to stop us earning more money.
Of course this upsets some of the ones involved.
If the game will decrease in popularity we will need to get some developers to make lots of money for us.

Just my interpetation.

Harsh. I think that they are saying that whatever happens, they will control any expansion, even by others. so developers may be licensed in some distant future to develop add ons but they will for certain be marketed through the MS market place and MS will therefore get a cut and control the development. Its the Apple business model and it is a no brainer for them.
I suppose it isnt unreasonable. I would also object if I had created a game and only made money out of the initial sale while others then make money out of add ons. so I dont object to the business model as such. But I believe that MS should embrace the simmer world and third party development sooner rather than later and thus make this game grow faster and more succesfully. Sure, strictly controlled etc. This would also generate more revenue for them. They are not stupid. they know all this and I expect to see agreements with third party developers in the not too distant future. however one thing is certain, free add ons are dead for a long time to come, if not for ever in Flight.

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Reply #13 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:28pm

JoBee Offline
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andy190 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 3:56pm:

I believe what you mean JoBee is that you can't always trust everything that comes out of Joshua Howard's mouth.

Your words, not mine.

cheers,
Joe

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Reply #14 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:41pm

andy190 Offline
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Cusance I can understand why MS might not want Third-party Payware, but freeware is a completely different thing.

Freeware is the blood & bones of FS & I'm sad that MS don't recognise that.

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Reply #15 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:47pm

New Light Offline
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Quote:

I believe that Flight can appeal to millions and millions of people, far more than the simulation sub-genre ever garnered, and our journey will be continuing to explore ways to bring the magic of flight to a massive audience.

This was my favorite quote in the article. From FS1 - FSX we were THE genre. Now we are considered a sub-genre. Thanks for the demotion - remember M$, a demotion includes a drop in salary also... In this case, your salary. Angry

I hope, for your sake, that the "millions and millions" show to empty their wallets into your hand - or I'd hate to be you.

Quote:

But simulation is a critical aspect of what we are trying to do – no arcade game can capture the majesty of flying the way a sophisticated simulation can.

So why don't you make a Flight Simulator!?!?!?

Dave

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Reply #16 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 7:51pm

Camel_Moe Offline
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New Light wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:47pm:

Quote:

I believe that Flight can appeal to millions and millions of people, far more than the simulation sub-genre ever garnered, and our journey will be continuing to explore ways to bring the magic of flight to a massive audience.

This was my favorite quote in the article. From FS1 - FSX we were THE genre. Now we are considered a sub-genre. Thanks for the demotion - remember M$, a demotion includes a drop in salary also... In this case, your salary. Angry

I hope, for your sake, that the "millions and millions" show to empty their wallets into your hand - or I'd hate to be you.

Quote:

But simulation is a critical aspect of what we are trying to do – no arcade game can capture the majesty of flying the way a sophisticated simulation can.

So why don't you make a Flight Simulator!?!?!?

Dave

I love video game dev hype.
"millions and millions"?
To date, "Forza 4", MS's awnser to Sony's flagship "Gran Turismo" driving game series, has sold 2,066,881 copies since 10/15/2011. ("Gran Turismo 5" has sold 7,318,011 since 10/27/2010). Note, these are long running series with dedicated fanbases. For $60 dollars you get a "complete" game. DLC available, but not required for much of the fanbase, new and old, to play for years without getting bored.
I'm pretty sure driving games are more popular than flight sims. Judging from reactions, somehow I don't see "millions and millions" of people playing Flight to the point of buying DLC, much less sticking with it in the long term.
Even MS Flight's own site is starting to lean towards the "OK, I'm getting bored now", "when are you guys giving us big jets, and the whole world?" comment side, and it hasn't even been a month. The "fanbase" (simmers) by and large aren't thrilled with it. The reviews from gamer sites are mediocre at best. In some cases pretty bad: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/microsoft-flight/critic-reviews , not even counting the user reviews, that tend towards the awful.
I don't see any justification for "millions and millions". Mabey A million, but not much more. It's the paying customer that counts, not how many just download the freebie and play it for a few days.
Nope, just Howard trying to put a little peer pressure on the reader. A little of the "Hey, if everybody else is playing, mabey I had better download it too" effect.
Don't think it's working......

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Reply #17 - Mar 20^th, 2012 at 8:08pm

andy190 Offline
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I think IGN has a very truthful review:

Quote:

You see, Flight is just about as far removed from a true flight sim as American Idol is from originality.

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Reply #18 - Mar 21^st, 2012 at 7:35am

Cusance Offline
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andy190 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

Cusance I can understand why MS might not want Third-party Payware, but freeware is a completely different thing.

Freeware is the blood & bones of FS & I'm sad that MS don't recognise that.

In this I agree with you however it is also difficult to see how they can recognize freeware and keep control of the francise as far as a revenue stream is concerned. I think in a way this is the Catch 22. We want MS to developed stuff but would seem to be prepared to cut off their revenue stream to finance this development. there may yet emerge a middle way. at some point they may somehow allow repaints without giving access to actual new plane development. Yes sad, but a reality. Question is now, will the simmer community work with MS as much as possible to make Flight into something we want to use or are we going to stand apart and thus be stuck with whatever they wish to give us? To some extend an academic question as MS has obviously different priorities now.

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