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Meandering through the Measurements.. (Read 1051 times)
Mar 5th, 2012 at 5:13am

Fozzer   Offline
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I watched a fascinating science program last, night on BBC 2 Television called "Orbit".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xztbr
It is part of a series of programs describing the wonders of the Planet Earth.
Last night's episode explained the Earth's journey around the Sun, and how the "spin" of the Earth affects the weather around us.
A wonderful, easy to understand, (unusual!) well presented program by two young female enthusiasts, (without a dearth of fancy computer graphics and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra playing in the background!).
It was a thoroughly enjoyable and enlightening program, involving the weather, which as Flight Enthusiasts, (and Motorcyclists!) we are all involved, and interested in!

The never-ending problem for me, as in all such programs, is the fact that all the measurements are given in Metric details, whereas I was brought up in the World of Imperial Measurements.
Distances and temperatures, etc, in Metres, Kilometres, Centigrade, etc, are a foreign language to me as someone who is more familiar with Feet, Inches, Miles, Fahrenheit, etc!
I am constantly trying to convert the quoted measurements from Metric into Imperial, to try and get a grasp on the distances, etc, involved.
...and by the time I have worked it out out on my fingers, they have moved onto something else!... Cry...!
The speed of the Earth spinning, or travelling, in Kilometres per Hour, means nothing to me, when I want so know the speed in Miles per Hour (which appears on the speedometer on my Motorbike)!
And distances, or height, in Metres or Kilometres, leaves me with a blank expression!
It will always spoil my enjoyment, and understanding of such interesting programs and general information.

To that end, I wonder how many of my elderly Flight Sim Chums are still bound by our familiar Imperial Measurement system, whereas the Metric System appears to us in the form of Egyptian Hieroglyphics!... Shocked...!

Paul....Measuring the Marigolds...(in feet and inches)... Wink...!
 

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Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 5:44am

Hagar   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 5:13am:
I watched a fascinating science program last, night on BBC 2 Television called "Orbit".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xztbr
It is part of a series of programs describing the wonders of the Planet Earth.
Last night's episode explained the Earth's journey around the Sun, and how the "spin" of the Earth affects the weather around us.
A wonderful, easy to understand, (unusual!) well presented program by two young female enthusiasts, (without a dearth of fancy computer graphics and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra playing in the background!).
It was a thoroughly enjoyable and enlightening program, involving the weather, which as Flight Enthusiasts, (and Motorcyclists!) we are all involved, and interested in!

Unusually for me I also watched that programme Paul. I thought it was very well done.

Quote:
The never-ending problem for me, as in all such programs, is the fact that all the measurements are given in Metric details, whereas I was brought up in the World of Imperial Measurements.
Distances and temperatures, etc, in Metres, Kilometres, Centigrade, etc, are a foreign language to me as someone who is more familiar with Feet, Inches, Miles, Fahrenheit, etc!
I am constantly trying to convert the quoted measurements from Metric into Imperial, to try and get a grasp on the distances, etc, involved.
...and by the time I have worked it out out on my fingers, they have moved onto something else!... Cry...!
The speed of the Earth spinning, or travelling, in Kilometres per Hour, means nothing to me, when I want so know the speed in Miles per Hour (which appears on the speedometer on my Motorbike)!
And distances, or height, in Metres or Kilometres, leaves me with a blank expression!
It will always spoil my enjoyment, and understanding of such interesting programs and general information.

To that end, I wonder how many of my elderly Flight Sim Chums are still bound by our familiar Imperial Measurement system, whereas the Metric System appears to us in the form of Egyptian Hieroglyphics!... Shocked...!

Paul....Measuring the Marigolds...(in feet and inches)... Wink...!

Having been taught the Imperial System at school I have the same problems as you with visualising metric measurements. A rough guide that I use is that 1 metre = 1 yard (give or take a couple of inches). The balloon experiment reached 20,000 metres which is very roughly 60,000 feet. (Actually 65,000.) http://www.simetric.co.uk/metres_to_feet.php

I noticed that one of the presenters slipped up at the end by giving the depth of water as 30 feet. Wink
 

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Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:55am

G.K.   Offline
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I'm *% yrs old born in 19$* so my fomative years were imperial. Background in engineering and Art Metal Work forced me to adopt metric.....what a blessing, so much easier. Glad I am fluent with both though.

I once had to teach a dyslexic Turkish Gentleman (language issues) how to add/subtract/multiply imperial fractions, covering vulgar fractions and the need to reduce to the lowest common denominator......a nightmare but we fortunately remained friends. He was right though "you English are bloody mad" Grin
 
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Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 9:17am

Hagar   Offline
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G.K. wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:55am:
I'm *% yrs old born in 19$* so my fomative years were imperial. Background in engineering and Art Metal Work forced me to adopt metric.....what a blessing, so much easier. Glad I am fluent with both though.

I don't find the Metric system any easier. I was taught the Imperial system but my job involved working in vulgar & decimal fractions of inches, & also the Metric system. I'm fully conversant with both systems but still think in Imperial. For example: I know exactly what a kilometre is but cannot visualise it. Same with a kilogram.

Quote:
He was right though "you English are bloody mad" Grin

That would have to include our American cousins. I can't see them changing in a hurry. Wink
 

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Reply #4 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 9:50am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 9:17am:
G.K. wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:55am:
He was right though "you English are bloody mad" Grin

That would have to include our American cousins. I can't see them changing in a hurry. Wink


Now browsing through this made me feel very much; "at home"...>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units

Paul...with a  Rod, Pole, Perch, and Chain....Smiley...!

The Units may be archaic...but they all sound so comforting and nice!... Kiss... Grin...!

Don't you just love it!...>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_units
 

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Reply #5 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 5:53pm

Steve M   Offline
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With some of our blueprints here using metric and some using imperial I've learned to switch back and forth. It's been at least 30 years since .Ca went metric and confusion still happens. You can have half of a crew that doesn't know what an inch is and the other half still doesn't know what a centimeter is. My tape measures I buy always have both printed on them side by side. Kph vs mph? Doesn't seem to matter, no one reads speed limit signs anyway!  Roll Eyes 

As a side note: Most construction materials are still sold and labeled  in imperial sizes even when they are made in .Ca.   
 

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Reply #6 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 6:26pm

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I'm blessed in that after nearly a decade in Eastern Europe I trip backwards and forwards without trouble.
My wife does sometimes get confused by me referring to measurements in "Church of England" Grin Grin Grin
 

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Reply #7 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 6:38pm

machineman9   Offline
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I'm used to using SI units, which are taken from metric. I had no problem understanding just how giant and massive everything is. It's a great system... The metre, centigrade, kilogram and litre are all related to the same thing - Water. They practically all define one another.

I saw the programme last night on iPlayer, and the Coriolis effect made much more sense afterwards. I'd like to see some more about the stars and gravitation though. We shall see what happens next week.
 

...
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Reply #8 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:00pm

Fozzer   Offline
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In my Design Draughtsman days, anyone who used the measurement "Centimetre" would immediately get thrown out of the premises.
Only 2 measurements are allowed in design circles (or anything else!); Millimetres and Metres...NEVER Centimetres!

Paul....Electrical/Electronic Design Draughtsman, Retired... Wink...!

Interesting note: The holes in the walls for doors and windows, etc, in old buildings are in Imperial Inches, but modern doors and window frames to fit them are manufactured in Metric Millimetres...so there's always a bit of a problem!.. Roll Eyes...!
 

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Reply #9 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:06pm

machineman9   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:00pm:
In my Design Draughtsman days, anyone who used the measurement "Centimetre" would immediately get thrown out of the premises.
Only 2 measurements are allowed in design circles (or anything else!); Millimetres and Metres...NEVER Centimetres!

Paul....Electrical/Electronic Design Draughtsman, Retired... Wink...!

You've never worked as a builder then? They operate in degrees of botchwork.  Grin
 

...
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Reply #10 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:11pm

Fozzer   Offline
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machineman9 wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:06pm:
Fozzer wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:00pm:
In my Design Draughtsman days, anyone who used the measurement "Centimetre" would immediately get thrown out of the premises.
Only 2 measurements are allowed in design circles (or anything else!); Millimetres and Metres...NEVER Centimetres!

Paul....Electrical/Electronic Design Draughtsman, Retired... Wink...!

You've never worked as a builder then? They operate in degrees of botchwork.  Grin


Nope...
...but I do suffer from the Coriolis Effect after a really hot Madras Curry!... Embarrassed...!

Paul... Grin....!
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:42pm

Steve M   Offline
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Grin Millimetres or metres, a pencil mark on a concrete floor is about two millimeters thick, (16001 millimeters ten times over) , always ends up a quarter inch off from the CAD on a laptop. 'Centimetre' was in comparison to an inch, and won't be found on a blueprint normally. I notice what we call a 2 by 4 wood stud is called a 4 by 2 in some parts. Actually 1.5" by 3.5". But I ramble on so much. Grin
 

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Reply #12 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:50pm

DaveSims   Offline
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I remember in grade school, they were really pushing metric conversion as the new way to go over here in America, really trying to get us used to it.  Now 20 years later, you can see how well that worked for them...

(still driving 70 MPH)
 
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Reply #13 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:52pm

Fozzer   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:42pm:
Grin Millimetres or metres, a pencil mark on a concrete floor is about two millimeters thick, (16001 millimeters ten times over) , always ends up a quarter inch off from the CAD on a laptop. 'Centimetre' was in comparison to an inch, and won't be found on a blueprint normally. I notice what we call a 2 by 4 wood stud is called a 4 by 2 in some parts. Actually 1.5" by 3.5". But I ramble on so much. Grin         


Its good to see that you are descended from the French in Ontario, Steve, and therefore spell the word Metre correctly for a measurement of distance, rather than the incorrect spelling; Meter, for a measurement of distance.
A "Meter" is an instrument for measuring!

Paul...Measuring the Metre...
 

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Reply #14 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:58pm

Steve M   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:52pm:
Steve M wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 7:42pm:
Grin Millimetres or metres, a pencil mark on a concrete floor is about two millimeters thick, (16001 millimeters ten times over) , always ends up a quarter inch off from the CAD on a laptop. 'Centimetre' was in comparison to an inch, and won't be found on a blueprint normally. I notice what we call a 2 by 4 wood stud is called a 4 by 2 in some parts. Actually 1.5" by 3.5". But I ramble on so much. Grin         


Its good to see that you are descended from the French in Ontario, Steve, and therefore spell the word Metre correctly for a measurement of distance, rather than the incorrect spelling; Meter, for a measurement of distance.
A "Meter" is an instrument for measuring!

Paul...Measuring the Metre...



It was my spell Chequer, Paul. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #15 - Mar 6th, 2012 at 7:59pm

Mictheslik   Offline
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I volunteer for a charity that restores British aeroplanes from the 60s and 70s during my free time and often have to fabricate components alongside older members. It does amuse me when they ask me to drill a hole 3 5/8 inches from the edge etc.

I'm gradually winning them over to the brilliance of a decimal system where all the measurements (in mm!) are nice numbers and not horrible fractions Tongue

To be honest, the conversions are not hard to remember, just hard to implement when trying to work out eighths.....and on that point, why when measuring do you say 4/8 and not 1/2?

.mic
 

[center]...
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Reply #16 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 3:50am

Fozzer   Offline
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Mictheslik wrote on Mar 6th, 2012 at 7:59pm:
I volunteer for a charity that restores British aeroplanes from the 60s and 70s during my free time and often have to fabricate components alongside older members. It does amuse me when they ask me to drill a hole 3 5/8 inches from the edge etc.

I'm gradually winning them over to the brilliance of a decimal system where all the measurements (in mm!) are nice numbers and not horrible fractions Tongue

To be honest, the conversions are not hard to remember, just hard to implement when trying to work out eighths.....and on that point, why when measuring do you say 4/8 and not 1/2?

.mic


You wont win, until all we; "Oldies" are dead, Mic... Wink... Wink...!

(..and all our Road Signs are in Kilometres)... Grin...!

Paul....3 and 5/16th's of an Inch..... Grin...!

32/64th's is also 1/2... Wink...!
 

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Reply #17 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 4:20am

Hagar   Offline
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Mictheslik wrote on Mar 6th, 2012 at 7:59pm:
I volunteer for a charity that restores British aeroplanes from the 60s and 70s during my free time and often have to fabricate components alongside older members. It does amuse me when they ask me to drill a hole 3 5/8 inches from the edge etc.

I'm gradually winning them over to the brilliance of a decimal system where all the measurements (in mm!) are nice numbers and not horrible fractions Tongue

To be honest, the conversions are not hard to remember, just hard to implement when trying to work out eighths.....and on that point, why when measuring do you say 4/8 and not 1/2?

.mic

In my experience it's easy to make mistakes when converting between different units of measurement. It's best to work in the units on the drawing or manual you're working from. Imperial measurements were used on the older British aircraft you're working on so it would make sense for you to learn them.

As a general rule of thumb, carpenters worked in units of eighths of an inch & engineers in tenths. The older chippies would say 4/8 instead of half an inch.

I'll give you an example of where this is still done today. My old company is the approved UK distributor for a well-known American flexible hose manufacturer. In the early 1980s I set up a workshop for manufacturing hoses commonly used on aircraft fuel, lubrication & hydraulic systems. (It's quite likely that we manufactured some of the hose assemblies on your flying club aircraft.) The parent company being based in the US all the measurements were in Imperial, as are the fittings & tools used to manufacture the hoses. One anomaly that we soon got used to being that the finished hose assemblies are measured in eighths of an inch (0304 = 30 1/2 inches) while the "cut off" dimensions for the end fittings required to calculate the actual length of the cut hose is in decimal inches (eg. 1.204 in). http://www.sacskyranch.com/h_len.htm

When manufacturing hoses to customer drawings we found that a lot of the drawing offices had adopted the metric system which caused unnecessary complications for us. This involved converting the metric measurements to Imperial before manufacture & converting back to measure the finished article in accordance with the customer requirement. This means that prospective employees for the hose shop have to be fully conversant with all systems. Unfortunately schools don't seem to appreciate this & only teach the metric system. As a result I spent a lot of my valuable time teaching them things that they should already know.
 

...

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Reply #18 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:04am

G.K.   Offline
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Being proud upstanding men I guess there's always one measurement that will forever be imperial.
 
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Reply #19 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:39am

Fozzer   Offline
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G.K. wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:04am:
Being proud upstanding men I guess there's always one measurement that will forever be imperial.


Which doesn't have to include; "fractions of an Inch" to impress!... Smiley...!

Paul... Grin... Grin... Grin...!
 

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Reply #20 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 6:15am

G.K.   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:39am:
G.K. wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:04am:
Being proud upstanding men I guess there's always one measurement that will forever be imperial.


Which doesn't have to include; "fractions of an Inch" to impress!... Smiley...!

Paul... Grin... Grin... Grin...!



Grin
Tip of the day:  always round up.
 
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Reply #21 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 6:29am

Fozzer   Offline
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G.K. wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 6:15am:
Fozzer wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:39am:
G.K. wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 5:04am:
Being proud upstanding men I guess there's always one measurement that will forever be imperial.


Which doesn't have to include; "fractions of an Inch" to impress!... Smiley...!

Paul... Grin... Grin... Grin...!



Grin
Tip of the day:  always round up.


48/64ths of a tablet of Viagra sometimes helps... Embarrassed...!

Paul... Grin... Grin.. Grin...!
 

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Reply #22 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 9:58am

machineman9   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 4:20am:
When manufacturing hoses to customer drawings we found that a lot of the drawing offices had adopted the metric system which caused unnecessary complications for us. This involved converting the metric measurements to Imperial before manufacture & converting back to measure the finished article in accordance with the customer requirement. This means that prospective employees for the hose shop have to be fully conversant with all systems. Unfortunately schools don't seem to appreciate this & only teach the metric system. As a result I spent a lot of my valuable time teaching them things that they should already know.

Wasn't there a fine example with NASA where the engineers were talking imperial, and the scientists were talking metric, and the two didn't quite translate properly, and one of their missions went a bit sour?


Thankfully, everything I do is in metric - physics is metric, maths is usually metric, electronics was based on physics (so metric) and technology used metric in their tools/CAD CAM machines/rulers.

I love the metric system  Grin
 

...
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Reply #23 - Mar 7th, 2012 at 10:22am

ViperPilot   Offline
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machineman9 wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 9:58am:
Hagar wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 4:20am:
When manufacturing hoses to customer drawings we found that a lot of the drawing offices had adopted the metric system which caused unnecessary complications for us. This involved converting the metric measurements to Imperial before manufacture & converting back to measure the finished article in accordance with the customer requirement. This means that prospective employees for the hose shop have to be fully conversant with all systems. Unfortunately schools don't seem to appreciate this & only teach the metric system. As a result I spent a lot of my valuable time teaching them things that they should already know.

Wasn't there a fine example with NASA where the engineers were talking imperial, and the scientists were talking metric, and the two didn't quite translate properly, and one of their missions went a bit sour?


Thankfully, everything I do is in metric - physics is metric, maths is usually metric, electronics was based on physics (so metric) and technology used metric in their tools/CAD CAM machines/ rulers.

I love the metric system  Grin



Mars Climate Orbiter - 1999. LM engineers, when programming part of the Orbiter's software, calculated thruster performance in Newtons (N), whereas the Ground Telemetry crew used Pounds-force (lbf). This discrepancy caused the spacecraft to enter the atmosphere of Mars too steeply, causing destruction of the spacecraft.

Another Metric vs. Imperial glitch was the "Gimli Glider".

Best thing... learn both systems twice, verify measurements thrice, and cut, trim or formulate ONCE!

Have used both systems regularly; Imperial for Construction & Carpentry, Metric for all the work I did in the Bicycle industry... including all of those old 60's and 70's Raleighs with the British Standard Cycle threading, not to mention French & Italian threading.

Oops... just about forgot; Old Schwinns used a combination of Metric and Imperial!!

Alan ...
 

[...
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-- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen

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Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:37pm

multiprops   Offline
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I Love Simviation.
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Dear Fozzer: being a fellow motorcyclist, I recommend my method to deal with speedometers in kph/mph or vice versa: just remove the darn thing, like I did in my bike Grin

While you are at it, go ahead and remove the mirrors too: after all "what comes behind really does not matter" (first rule of the Italian driver)  Cool


Grin
 

Superconstellations Are hot, or what? Smiley
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