Simviation Forum - Microlight license upgrade to JAR PPL question

Nov 25^th, 2011 at 1:09pm

machineman9 Offline
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Nantwich, England

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I'm still looking at the prospect of learning to fly and to gain my PPL. Having done a bit more research it has become apparent that microlights are vastly cheaper, and fly nearer to home.

I would look at flying fixed wing microlights (for example, the EV-97). I am just wondering how, if at all, I could convert that PPL(M) license into a JAR PPL to fly anywhere in a single engined aeroplane.

Is it a matter of getting a familiarisation flight and flying the PPL 'technical' lessons, E.G stall awarness, extra navigation, RT, etc. Or would I have to fly the entire course out?

I have had a search around, but surprisingly I haven't found any clear cut answers. I would've thought that this be a very popular route.

Cheers.

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Reply #1 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 2:41pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

I would look at flying fixed wing microlights (for example, the EV-97). I am just wondering how, if at all, I could convert that PPL(M) license .....

I think that would be the NPPL.

This should give you some idea of what's involved. http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/366472-convert-nppl-jaa-ppl.html

I would recommend visiting the flying school where you're thinking of taking lessons. They should have all the answers.

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Reply #2 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 4:40pm

machineman9 Offline
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Ahh, excellent. So it appears that it really is just a case of familiarise and then catch up on the other subjects that weren't previously taught.

I can't think why more people don't go down this route - A fixed wing microlight is basically the same as a regular aeroplane, but costs a third less to fly!

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Reply #3 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 4:53pm

Hagar Offline
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I don't think it's as simple as that. As I said before, ask the instructors at the flying school.

I hesitate to give advice as the regulations are regularly updated. I think this should be the current situation. http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/licences.htm

This is important: Do Microlight hours count towards a Group A PPL?

CAP 53 allows some microlight flying hours to be taken into account if you decide to train for a light aircraft PPL: "Hours flown in a 3 Axis Microlight may be counted towards the requirements for the grant of a PPL(A) group A licence." This concession is limited to 10% of your microlight hours, up to a maximum of 10 hours.

Also this from my local school at Popham. Quote:

This is a REALISTIC budgetary figure based on REAL times - 45 hours flying training. Don't be fooled by those quoting figures based on the minimum 25 hours of training - that very rarely happens!!

The following is our current actual price list. All figures are subject to change.

http://flymac.co.uk/files/content/files/Detailed%20Costs%20-%202011%20v01.pdf

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Reply #4 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:06pm

C Offline
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Sounds like you need to have a look at LASORS (CAA Flight crew licensing document) - that deals with most permutations of licenses and what can be credited for what and various credits etc.

I think the 2010 version's still extant. Type "CAA LASORS" into google. IIRC section C deals with PPLs.

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Reply #5 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:08pm

machineman9 Offline
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Hmm. When it's put that way, only £300-£500 are saved by using the 10 hours from a microlight.

A rethink is in order again... Or I might just leave it and see where the University Air Squadron can take me Grin

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Reply #6 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:28pm

Hagar Offline
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I don't wish to discourage you but it's best to know what it's likely to cost before you start. The fact is that flying is expensive & there's no short cuts. I still think you should visit your local flying school to get their advice.

Have you thought about what you do when you get whichever licence you go for? The cost doesn't stop there & you have to fly regularly to keep it.

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Reply #7 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:44pm

C Offline
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machineman9 wrote on Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:08pm:

Hmm. When it's put that way, only £300-£500 are saved by using the 10 hours from a microlight.

A rethink is in order again... Or I might just leave it and see where the University Air Squadron can take me Grin

UBAS?

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Reply #8 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 6:21pm

Dave71k Ex Member

This is what I came across when I had my first flying lesson last week. I discussed the cost a lot. And the on going cost basically killed it for me. After the £7000 for my PPL and the extra £1000s for the IMC etc there's then the on going cost of fuel and hanger fees or rental fees. So I decided flex wings microlight were the answer!

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Reply #9 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 6:23pm

machineman9 Offline
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C wrote on Nov 25^th, 2011 at 5:44pm:

UBAS?

Most likely! I am looking at Aston or Coventry University, and the MASUAS or LUAS are other possibilities if I make it into a different university.

To be honest, my flying career is fairly reliant on the results of my A levels this year. I did a third year of study, and provided I get another grade above C, I am suitable for the BA pilot training scheme and university (as a degree would be most useful in putting me 'above the rest' when it comes to the RAF - Amongst other things!)

So my reasons for a private license are fairly limited to recreational purposes. It's a lot of money, there is no doubt in that. But I would mostly keep it for joy flying. Perhaps the odd trip far and away, but by and large it would be a distraction from the goings-on of every day life.

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Reply #10 - Nov 25^th, 2011 at 6:33pm

machineman9 Offline
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Quote:

This is what I came across when I had my first flying lesson last week. I discussed the cost a lot. And the on going cost basically killed it for me. After the £7000 for my PPL and the extra £1000s for the IMC etc there's then the on going cost of fuel and hanger fees or rental fees. So I decided flex wings microlight were the answer!

I think it's a toss up between flying for fun and flying for a living. Unless you plan on becoming an instructor, there is no profitability in microlights and it is purely for the joy of flight. I would imagine you need a standard PPL and applicable ratings to become an instructor anyway.

I don't really want to limit what I can fly or get into a situation where I have buried myself into a sector of aviation where it becomes expensive to move to different areas. So the JAR-PPL is ideal because it is a gateway to move into the different areas and become a more rounded pilot (and that's not just because you're sitting down all the time Grin

)

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Reply #11 - Nov 27^th, 2011 at 9:04am

Jayhawk Jake Offline
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I think anywhere the biggest issue is the limitations of microlight flight. Same is true for Light Sport in the US. It seems so promising because it's so much less expensive, but ultimately you get stuck flying specific planes in specific conditions, and if you ever decide you want to fly something not covered by microlights or light sport, it's going to cost significantly more to get that PPL than it would be to go the other way, i.e. starting with a standard PPL and learning microlights.

I just wish it weren't so expensive to learn to fly, and of everyone here, I'm the last person that should be complaining because I can do it for relatively cheap, but it's still a lot of money!

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Reply #12 - Nov 27^th, 2011 at 1:54pm

machineman9 Offline
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Jayhawk Jake wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 9:04am:

I think anywhere the biggest issue is the limitations of microlight flight. Same is true for Light Sport in the US. It seems so promising because it's so much less expensive, but ultimately you get stuck flying specific planes in specific conditions, and if you ever decide you want to fly something not covered by microlights or light sport, it's going to cost significantly more to get that PPL than it would be to go the other way, i.e. starting with a standard PPL and learning microlights.

I just wish it weren't so expensive to learn to fly, and of everyone here, I'm the last person that should be complaining because I can do it for relatively cheap, but it's still a lot of money!

Precisely! It's a bit of a dead end route except for those 10 hours of transferable experience. Sure, you can become a talented pilot and then transfer your skills, but I dare say the minimum length of a PPL course will be a suitable time to get me close to the standard required for the test. I am usually very quick on the uptake when it comes to these sorts of lessons. If I can't convert all my hours over, it doesn't make much sense to learn on that type. Much better to, as you say, get a license and then fly microlights if I decided to.

But as money is still against me, I shall look towards MS Flight Wink

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