Simviation Forum - Which Where?

Aug 6^th, 2011 at 3:45pm

H Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender:
Posts: 6837

Wasn't sure where to ask this.
There seem to have been three RAF airfields fairly close to one another: Biggin, Kenley and, to the south/east of Kenley, there was _____?

« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2011 at 9:04pm by H »

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #1 - Aug 6^th, 2011 at 4:58pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

I don't know of a RAF airfield immediately south or west of Kenley. Croydon is to the north. Detling & West Malling are south-east of Biggin Hill. http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/11group.html

PS. Did you mean Redhill? http://www.wingsmuseum.co.uk/RAF_Redhill.htm

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #2 - Aug 6^th, 2011 at 9:36pm

H Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender:
Posts: 6837

Sorry, I meant southeast of Kenley, although Redhill seemed possible -- it was listed as a satellite field for Kenley. The mystery came about because the 'Kenley' airfield from which one's squadron takes off in the Bandits Over Kenley mission (CFS1) is not the Kenley Aerodrome (one is facing easterly towards the oncoming bombers; upon landing on that runway, one is heading westerly, on a line south of the triangular-runway-configured Kenley.
This has also revealed the great number of airfields that were in service during WW2 but were closed down to various levels. When fog and clouds were heavy, I wonder how often a new Luftwaffe bombadier was told to "Just let 'em drop, they're bound to hit an airfield" (said in German, of course, not just English with a German accent).

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #3 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 2:19am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

It's quite possible that Kenley in the Bandits Over Kenley mission is in the wrong location. Is it one of the CFS1 default airfields? RAF Kenley was in the same location as the current Kenley Aerodrome which is still used for gliding. http://www.southlondongliding.co.uk/

Quote:

This has also revealed the great number of airfields that were in service during WW2 but were closed down to various levels.

Some important RAF airfields had one or more satellites, most of which which were closed down at the end of WWII. A good example is RAF Tangmere which had satellites at Merston & Westhampnett (now Goodwood Aerodrome). There was also a number of Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs) built on requisitioned farmland in the south of England for use during the Normandy Invasion in 1944. These were returned to the owners as soon as they were no longer required.

Although bombs were dropped at random for various reasons the Luftwaffe bombing of RAF airfields during the BoB was surprisingly accurate.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #4 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 5:23am

H Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender:
Posts: 6837

Hagar wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 2:19am:

It's quite possible that Kenley in the Bandits Over Kenley mission is in the wrong location. Is it one of the CFS1 default airfields? RAF Kenley was in the same location as the current Kenley Aerodrome which is still used for gliding. http://www.southlondongliding.co.uk/

The proper airfield is selected in Free Flight; a nearby, or satellite, field was selected in the Bandits Over Kenley misson (referenced to the date when, in reality, nearly 70 planes were lost on both sides during an attack on Kenley); in the sim, there is a large puddle (lake/pond) easterly, another southeast, of the mystery field:

Hagar wrote on Aug 7^th, 2011 at 2:19am:

Although bombs were dropped at random for various reasons the Luftwaffe bombing of RAF airfields during the BoB was surprisingly accurate.

Understood; it wasn't as if most had no previous experience -- they were losing many of their better trained aircrew during the BoB.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #5 - Aug 7^th, 2011 at 5:06pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

It's a very long time since I last fired up CFS1 (or CFS2 for that matter). I suspect the author of the mission used a little artistic licence. Are the airstrips in your shot included with the mission? I don't think the CFS1 default scenery is too accurate either. I can't find those lakes on a map of the area.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #6 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 12:28am

H Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender:
Posts: 6837

You're correct, the CFS landscape is not particularly accurate. However, since I haven't procured actual overall mapping of military airfields in WW2 (nor have I any first person knowledge of your general locale), I've been using the sim to try to locate an actual area whenever I encounter something of interest in an article, book, etc..
Nevertheless, it seems the runway in question, declared as Kenley, is actually Biggin Hill; importing The Luftwaffe Strikes Biggin Hill campaign mission to Single Missions and a Biggin Hill selection in Free Flight tends to confirm this. Therefore, the three airfields in the px are supposed to be (from upper left to lower right) Croydon, Kenley and Biggin Hill. Now what are those big puddles nearby supposed to be -- now long gone remnants of an August, 1940, rainstorm?

« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2011 at 9:23pm by H »

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #7 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 5:14am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Therefore, the three airfields in the px are supposed to be (from upper left to lower right) Croyden, Kenley and Biggin Hill. Now what are those big puddles nearby supposed to be -- now long gone remnants of an August, 1940, rainstorm?

I suspect the one due east of Biggin Hill is Sevenoaks Wildlife Reserve which was created from a disused gravel pit. I can't find a date but presume this was done after the end of WWII. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevenoaks_Wildlife_Reserve

The lake to the south is probably Bough Beech reservoir which was constructed in the 1960s.

I therefore suspect that the CFS1 default landscape was based on modern maps. This is one of the area as it looks today. All your airfields are on it. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bough+beech+reservoir&ll=51.2675,-0.004807&spn=0...

PS. It's spelt Croydon.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #8 - Aug 8^th, 2011 at 11:39am

H Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender:
Posts: 6837

If so, certainly out of place and proportions. Of course, we don't know what they used for a map -- maybe they couldn't see the forest for the trees (a zoom-in made the woods look like dark blue-green water). Anyway, I don't suppose many planes have sunk into a pond that wasn't there.

Thanks much for the assist.

PS The namesake, Croydon (Sullivan County, NH) was the home of Samuel Hall, a somewhat reknowned educator. Sullivan is the county in which I was born -- obviously, they left no rock unturned.

Back to top

IP Logged

	Search the archive: