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Flight Computers (Read 1064 times)
Nov 8
th
, 2010 at 10:51am
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
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Goodly morning all...
I am posting this here because I think there will be many different thoughts and opinions on this topic from Windows 7 to the Whiz Wheel.
Flight Computers:
E6B or "Whiz Wheel" from 1930s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6B
Jeppesen CR-3 "Circular Computer"
http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/1207
Air Classics
CX-2 Pathfinder Flight Computer
http://flysunstate.com/store/cx2-electronic-flight-computer.html
And just to add some confusion...
Keuffel and Esser Slide Rule "Slipstick"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
Well the old girl and I have two or three of the mentioned above hand held computers including several slide rules which I bet ninety per-cent of the simviation membership would look at and gasp.
It is a habit for us when we do a flight plan to use the E6B or Jepp CR-3 and check the figures with the battery powered CX-2 Pathfinder to see how accurate we are.
If you are interested talk to a Flight Navigator and see what equipment they used to have and what they use now, you would be amazed and probably find it interesting.
As for the slide rule, that is what we used in high school, college and university long before the hand held battery powered calculators came about.
The home computer also has several different calculators available amongst other tools but one needs a very long cord to take the home computer for a flight in their thrifty 150...
Well I have all kinds of calculators and hand held computers but I am still waiting for someone to design and produce a computer operating system that works.
What I have read here in a previous post was Vista is garbage which I agree with and Windows 7 was designed for folks like me who have little knowledge of these electronic gizmoes and Windows 7 is not much better than Vista.
HMMM...so what is this post all about?
Am I trying to tell you about hand held flight computers or electronic computers that can be used for simulated flight?
Darn I can't remember...
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
P.S. Off to sit in the corner of my wee underground garage
barn...
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #1 -
Nov 8
th
, 2010 at 8:00pm
patchz
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What, me worry?
IN THE FUNNY PAPERS
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I have an
Abacus
but I have no idea how to use it. It is as Greek to me as a slide rule. The rest of that stuff, I've never heard of.
patchz....non-pilot
If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.
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Reply #2 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 7:58am
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
Chair Flying Geezer
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Awesome reply Larry...
Now that is something one does not see much anymore. There is an old brown one around the homestead somewhere, it should be worth a few dollars now...
I was at the bugsmasher field and those silly old retired rocking chair flying geezers got talking about the computers used in the world war two bombers like the Halifax.
I have seen one and it sparked my interest so am trying to do a little research on this unit as they say they were one of the first flying computers.
Wonder why it took so long for the personal home computer to come on the civilian market?
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #3 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 8:06am
Fozzer
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
patchz wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2010 at 8:00pm:
I have an
Abacus
but I have no idea how to use it. It is as Greek to me as a slide rule. The rest of that stuff, I've never heard of.
patchz....non-pilot
I had an Abacus once...
..but all the beads fell out, and I couldn't figure out which order to put them all back in again...
...!
Paul....
....!
P.S. I've still got all my 8-Bit and 16-Bit Computers dating from the 1970's...
...but they are not a lot of use in an Aeroplane..
...!
Paul....playing with my beads...
...!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #4 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 9:18am
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Flying Trucker wrote
on Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 7:58am:
I was at the bugsmasher field and those silly old retired rocking chair flying geezers got talking about the computers used in the world war two bombers like the Halifax.
I have seen one and it sparked my interest so am trying to do a little research on this unit as they say they were one of the first flying computers.
Hi Doug. I suspect the "computer" they're talking about was the Mk IX Course Setting Bombsight.
http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_mk_ix_course_setting_bombsight.htm...
This was a mechanical instrument & not the electronic computer we're familiar with today.
Quote:
Wonder why it took so long for the personal home computer to come on the civilian market?
That's easy enough to explain. The problem was the sheer size & weight of the components. The World's first semi-programmable electronic computer was Colossus Mk I that became operational at the code breaking centre at Bletchley Park in early 1944. It used 1,500 thermionic valves (vacuum tubes) & would fill a fair sized room. Home computers would not become practical until the development of integrated circuits & microprocessors in the 1970s.
Back to the original subject, we were trained on the Dalton Mk III Navigational "Computor" when I was in the ATC (Air Training Corps). This was the same as those used by the RAF in WWII. I'm sure you've used these yourself.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvk/3893148355/
Again, it's purely mechanical & more like a circular slide rule. Rather bulky but very easy to use once you know how it works.
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Reply #5 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 10:59am
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
Chair Flying Geezer
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Posts: 11425
Good morning all...
Thanks for the reply Paul...
Hi Doug
No it is not the MK 1X Bomb site.
This unit had a cable or several cables attached to it, fairly large unit, rectangular and it would keep the aircraft in equillibrium on a bomb drop.
If the crew were in the second wave and only chose to drop a partial load this computer would choose the bombs either from the bomb bay or on the Halifax the wings as well. The computer I was told would take into consideration the fuel load left as well therefore keeping the aircraft in equillibrium and able to proceed onto the secondary target.
As there was no power assisted controls in the Lanc and Halifax, it made less tiring work for the pilot.
I have seen the unit at the National Air Force Museum at Canadian Forces Base Trenton however it is installed in the restored Halifax which is not open inside to the public.
About half way down Doug you will see pictures of the T1 and Computer. I am not sure if this is the one I am thinking about or not. Would like to know more about it to see if it was connected to the aircraft auto pilot if the Lanc and Halifax had an auto pilot. The picture does not show any cables and does not look quite large enought however as time progressed so did modifications so that is what I am thinking. Again not sure...
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_maiorbombsights.htm
Hopefully will get inside as they will allow family members of former aircrew.
Very interesting read:
http://thevaluesell.com/images/LSearle_bombsight.pdf
I also found a site that I can't seem to find right now that showed Belly Turrets and Side Weapons on the Lanc and Halifax.
Yes I have several Dalton Computers here as well, wonder what they are worth to-day?
Cheers...Happy Landings....Doug
«
Last Edit: Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 12:44pm by Flying Trucker
»
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #6 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 1:02pm
Hagar
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Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Flying Trucker wrote
on Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 10:59am:
Hi Doug
No it is not the MK 1X Bomb site.
This unit had a cable or several cables attached to it, fairly large unit, rectangular and it would keep the aircraft in equillibrium on a bomb drop.
If the crew were in the second wave and only chose to drop a partial load this computer would choose the bombs either from the bomb bay or on the Halifax the wings as well. The computer I was told would take into consideration the fuel load left as well therefore keeping the aircraft in equillibrium and able to proceed onto the secondary target.
As there was no power assisted controls in the Lanc and Halifax, it made less tiring work for the pilot.
I have seen the unit at the National Air Force Museum at Canadian Forces Base Trenton however it is installed in the restored Halifax which is not open inside to the public.
About half way down Doug you will see pictures of the T1 and Computer. I am not sure if this is the one I am thinking about or not. Would like to know more about it to see if it was connected to the aircraft auto pilot if the Lanc and Halifax had an auto pilot. The picture does not show any cables and does not look quite large enought however as time progressed so did modifications so that is what I am thinking. Again not sure...
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_maiorbombsights.htm
Hopefully will get inside as they will allow family members of former aircrew.
Very interesting read:
http://thevaluesell.com/images/LSearle_bombsight.pdf
I'll be interested to see what you can find out Doug. Both the Halifax & Lancaster had an autopilot (nicknamed George) but I can't find any reference to the bombsight being connected to it as in the Norden.
Quote:
I also found a site that I can't seem to find right now that showed Belly Turrets and Side Weapons on the Lanc and Halifax.
I believe the Lancaster was originally designed with a ventral turret. Not sure about the Halifax. I've read about various "in house" mods to add ventral guns firing through open hatches in the fuselage.
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Reply #7 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 2:16pm
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
Chair Flying Geezer
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Good afternoon all...
Hi Doug
Here is a Link I found which mentions the T-1A Sperry Bombsight and the Sperry A-5 Autopilot which was the first true three axis auto pilot.
http://www.glennsmuseum.com/bombsights/bombsights.html
Not sure if this is what was in the Lanc or Halifax. It would seem to me it was as the Norden units were pretty much in American aircraft like the B17 and B24 however I read where the Lend Lease B24s had the Sperry units.
The museum is open tomorrow so I will drop by to see what I can find out....
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #8 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 3:14pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Posts: 33159
Just found this.
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_t1bombsight.htm
Mr. Vose of Sperry, in making his case for the manufacture under license of the MkXlV optimistically implied that the USAAF would be interested in acquiring the bombsight for use on some of its types of bombers. Later an old Hudson was indeed equipped with a Mk XlV/T1 but
the USAAF rejected it
because of the requirement to set manually, a wind speed and direction and
for lack of connection to the aircraft through the automatic pilot
. These requirements were a feature of the Norden and Sperry bombsights.
The decision was made to subcontract the manufacture the Mk XlV to Sperrys where the American version would be known as the T1 bombsight.
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Reply #9 -
Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 9:31pm
Flying Trucker
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Thanks Doug
Off to the dentist tomorrow and then will try to stop at the museum...
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #10 -
Nov 12
th
, 2010 at 12:58pm
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
Chair Flying Geezer
Gender:
Posts: 11425
Good afternoon all...
Made it to the museum but the chap that new about this unit is away for a month.
I did take a look at the unit, the museum has three of them not including the one hooked up in the restored Halifax.
The unit was made by:
AC SPARK PLUG DIVISION...GMC...USA
COMPUTER
TYPE T-1-A Along with a card that said MK X!V Computer
Interesting unit but mechanical I believe with hookups and many settings.
Guess I shall have to wait the month for him to come back.
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #11 -
Nov 12
th
, 2010 at 1:17pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Hi Doug. At least that confirms it's the T-1A bombsight we've been discussing. This was manufactured in the USA by A.C Spark Plug. It was known in the RAF as the Mk XIV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_XIV_bomb_sight
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Reply #12 -
Nov 12
th
, 2010 at 1:33pm
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
Chair Flying Geezer
Gender:
Posts: 11425
Thanks for the link Doug.
I wish my uncles were all alive as one of them flew the DeHavilland Mosquito and I believe the T-1-A was used it that aircraft.
There were some lively discussions around the old kitchen table about the DeHavilland Mosquito, Hawker Typhoon and the Bristol Beaufighter.
Oh and a little off topic but I got a look at the Avro Anson being restored this morning...wonderful and all done by unsung volunteers...
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #13 -
Nov 12
th
, 2010 at 9:32pm
specter177
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Check out the Maverick
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I just use an E6B.
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Reply #14 -
Nov 13
th
, 2010 at 10:26am
Flying Trucker
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An Old Retired Rocking
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Posts: 11425
That's all you really need specter177...
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #15 -
Nov 13
th
, 2010 at 12:53pm
specter177
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Yep, those electronic ones are just way too expensive.
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Reply #16 -
Nov 13
th
, 2010 at 2:18pm
H
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2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA
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Fozzer wrote
on Nov 9
th
, 2010 at 8:06am:
I had an Abacus once...
but all the beads fell out...
playing with my beads...
Glad to see you didn't lose all your marbles...
Sorry to see they're not orderly nor where they belong...
I didn't have any marbles to lose but I had a slide rule until last year...
now I've got nothing to control my slippage...
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Reply #17 -
Nov 14
th
, 2010 at 5:06am
patchz
Offline
Colonel
What, me worry?
IN THE FUNNY PAPERS
Gender:
Posts: 10589
Don't say I never gave you anything.
If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.
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Reply #18 -
Nov 15
th
, 2010 at 1:46pm
H
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Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA
Gender:
Posts: 6837
patchz wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2010 at 5:06am:
Don't say I never gave you anything.
[img]
Look,
Foz
, a helpful angel with horns...
you already have too many marbles to sort out...
and I'd now have more than enough to worry about losing.
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