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Adjusting Distances Between Aircraft In Formation (Read 1810 times)

Sep 23^rd, 2010 at 7:02pm

Camryn Offline
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Posts: 8

There is screen somewhere in CFS2 that lets us adjust the distances between the aircraft in the formation that we have selected in the Missions Builder. But I can’t find it. I know it’s in there somewhere because I used it several years ago. I need help!

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Reply #1 - Sep 23^rd, 2010 at 9:58pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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There is no such screen for adjusting the formation intervals between aircraft that I know of....and I've been using MB for nine years. If there were any such adjustment that could be made, it would be a setting in the CFS2.CFG file. You might scroll through and take a look. I'm not at my desktop now, or I would.

Also, download Cody Coyote's MB Manual on this page....if there's a way he's covered it:

http://www.simviation.com/cfs2misc13.htm

(16MB download)

By giving the Recall or Regroup command to your wingmen you can get them to tighten-up. Each time you give it (up to three times) they will decrease the aircraft interval...according to the sim manual.

Also, be aware that the 'collision bubble' also dictates how close the planes can get. Wink

Wink

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #2 - Oct 6^th, 2010 at 7:10pm

Camryn Offline
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I do recall something about a "collusion bubble." How can it be made smaller?

Thanks,

Don

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Reply #3 - Oct 6^th, 2010 at 10:24pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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"...... Don't forget to use one of the mk_mdlc versions to reduce each plane's "Collision Bubble". I have my smaller fighters set to 4 or 5, medium bombers and transports to 7 or 8, and large bombers to 11 or 12. This will allow you to "get in close" without encroaching on the other planes' Personal Space.... Mo' Realistic."

"You're only changing the collision bubble in CFS2 stock or restricted addon's. Any of these can be reduced by using the Mk_mdlc+MDLC combo and reducing size to 5 or 6:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...7&postcount=32 "

These programs Mk_mdlc and MDLC in various versions are available here at SimV, but their use has a fairly steep learning curve.
Wink

Wink

PS - I don't think that reducing the collision bubble (which has to be done on each individual aircraft's MDL file) is going to significantly reduce the interval between aircraft in a flight. It would help to understand what you are trying to achieve.

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #4 - Oct 6^th, 2010 at 10:32pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Camryn wrote on Oct 6^th, 2010 at 7:10pm:

I do recall something about a "collusion bubble." How can it be made smaller?

Thanks,

Don

Did you check Cody Coyote's Mission/Campaign builder tutorial for ways to reduce aircraft intervals in formation?

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #5 - Oct 7^th, 2010 at 10:59am

Camryn Offline
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Tango,

Thanks for the info.

You said, “There is no such screen for adjusting the formation intervals between aircraft that I know of...”

I found it!

In the Mission Builder I had previously set up a mission with 4 aircraft in a diamond formation.

I then went to the MISSIONS folder and selected the second “ace01” I opened it and scrolled down to the following:

_________________________________
[formation.0]
id=6004
type=air
waypoint_path_id=5047
directive=2
hidden=1
suspended=1
formation_type=1
unit_id_position.0=9078,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
unit_id_position.1=9079,0,-300.0,-600.0,0.0
unit_id_position.2=9080,0,300.0,-600.0,150.0
unit_id_position.3=9081,0,600.0,-1200.0,150.0
_____________________________________

As I recall…

Position 0 (9078) is the lead plane.
Position 1 (9079) is set to 300 feet to the right (or left) and 600 feet behind the lead.
Position 2 (9080) is set to 300 feet to the left (or right) and 600 feet behind the lead. (I don’t remember what that 150 refers to in this case.)
Position 3 (9081) I think is set to 1200 feet behind the lead plane. The 150 here may refer to 150 feet below the lead.

I changed the above like this…

unit_id_position.0=9078,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
unit_id_position.1=9079,0,-50.0,-50.0,0.0 (50 ft. to the side and 50 ft. behind lead.)
unit_id_position.2=9080,0,50.0,-50.0,0 (50 ft to other side and 50 ft. behind lead.)
unit_id_position.3=9081,0,-100.0,10.0 (100 ft behind and 10 ft. below the lead)

This setup worked great several years ago. If the lead moved away the other aircraft would catch up and gradually settle back into their assigned positions. I looked and felt very realistic.

But now when I tried this the 3 following aircraft will not stay in their assigned positions. They keep alternating between steep climbing and diving. I suspect that the collision bubble may have something to do with it?

Don

[b][/b]

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Reply #6 - Oct 7^th, 2010 at 11:43am

Camryn Offline
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Another problem I just ran into.

I made some changes in the above file and then tried to save the changes. I remember doing this in the past but this time my computer would not allow me to save the changed file. ?

Don

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Reply #7 - Oct 7^th, 2010 at 10:14pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Camryn wrote on Oct 7^th, 2010 at 10:59am:

Tango,

Thanks for the info.

You said, “There is no such screen for adjusting the formation intervals between aircraft that I know of...”

I found it!

There yah go! You got the edit right.

But it's not the 'settings screen' that you asked about...it's the hand-editing of a MIS file....just as described in Cody's document to which I tried to point you in the earlier post. You really should read this 229-page book.
Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

This setup worked great several years ago. If the lead moved away the other aircraft would catch up and gradually settle back into their assigned positions. I looked and felt very realistic.

But now when I tried this the 3 following aircraft will not stay in their assigned positions. They keep alternating between steep climbing and diving. I suspect that the collision bubble may have something to do with it?

Yes, you've tried to place the aircraft so close together that they would violate the collision bubble. Just try backing them off a bit and you will find the limit of the bubble. Or just learn to use MDLC to reduce the bubble.

You're definitely on a journey of discovery....or rather REdiscovery. Keep us posted on your progress.

Don

[b][/b]

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #8 - Oct 7^th, 2010 at 10:20pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Camryn wrote on Oct 7^th, 2010 at 11:43am:

Another problem I just ran into.

I made some changes in the above file and then tried to save the changes. I remember doing this in the past but this time my computer would not allow me to save the changed file. ?

I suspect that if you right click the MIS file in question, you will find the READ ONLY block is checked in the file's Properties. If so uncheck this block, before doing your edit, and you should be able to save it.

PS Be aware that if the hand-edited MIS file has been changed in a manner that violates MB parameters, opening it again in MB and resaving it will eliminate the edits altogether.
Undecided

Undecided

Don

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #9 - Oct 9^th, 2010 at 2:40pm

Camryn Offline
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Posts: 8

Tango,

1) I downloaded the CFS2 handbook. I hope is has something to say about what I'm trying to do.

2) i fouund tht READ ONLY block you mentioned. It was unchecked.

3) You suggested that I may be setting the aircraft in formation too close to each other. But those close settings worked great worked great at that time.

4) As I recall I neededo add a "name_string" at the end of the file I had edited.

Don

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Reply #10 - Oct 9^th, 2010 at 4:19pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Camryn wrote on Oct 9^th, 2010 at 2:40pm:

Tango,

1) I downloaded the CFS2 handbook. I hope is has something to say about what I'm trying to do.

There is a section on modifying formations. And if you have any other questions, email Cody as he will help you out.
Cool

Cool

2) i fouund tht READ ONLY block you mentioned. It was unchecked.

Sorry, I can't think of any other reason you cannot save the modified file.
Undecided

Undecided

3) You suggested that I may be setting the aircraft in formation too close to each other. But those close settings worked great worked great at that time.

The only reason I suggest that is that the combat formations were widely spread, not closely packed. That is still true today. Combat spread.
Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

4) As I recall I neededo add a "name_string" at the end of the file I had edited.

I've hand-edited many missions, but never for this purpose, so I can't help.
Embarrassed

Embarrassed

Don

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #11 - Oct 9^th, 2010 at 7:02pm

Camryn Offline
Lieutenant Colonel
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Posts: 8

Thanks for your help Tango. I'll let you know if I can get what I'm looking for. And that is an airshow Blue Angels type formation rather than a combat spread formation.

Don

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Reply #12 - Oct 9^th, 2010 at 10:33pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Camryn wrote on Oct 9^th, 2010 at 7:02pm:

Thanks for your help Tango. I'll let you know if I can get what I'm looking for. And that is an airshow Blue Angels type formation rather than a combat spread formation.

Don

To get them that close you will absolutely have to reduce the collision bubble, and then I'm afraid you are going to have a lot of collisions anyhow. The wingmen, I fear, are so slow to react to the flight leader's movements, that when you make a turn you're going to run into a wingman.

I hope I'm wrong. Good Luck.

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #13 - Oct 10^th, 2010 at 8:32am

Camryn Offline
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Somehow I was able to do this several years ago and it worked fine. Again, if I ever figure it out I'll let you know.

Don

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Reply #14 - Oct 16^th, 2010 at 5:25pm

SgtT Offline
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Posts: 3

Please let me know if this works, I've been trying to do the same. Is it possible to do the same in QC?

Thanks,

T.

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Reply #15 - Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 3:52pm

Camryn Offline
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SgtT,

Now that you mention it I may have set things up in the Quick Combat mode. I'll let you know if that makes any difference.

Don

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Reply #16 - Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 4:16pm

Bub Offline
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Camryn,
I don't know if this will help. There was a mission called AVG Show, I believe, on Nanni's CFS2 Page. You fly formation with the BR P-40's, which are no longer available. But, in it might be some of the parameters for formation flying you're looking for. It might be worth a shot.
Bub

"These Blockbuster Bombs don't go off unless you hit them JUST right".

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