Simviation Forum - Warbird questions

Jun 8^th, 2010 at 1:25pm

brettt777 Offline
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A customer of ours has a P-51D that we are painting. Right now it's painted as "Ain't Misbehavin" but we are redoing it more like the original. As far as we know this is not the original plane so I was trying to use the serial number to find out the real history of this particular aircraft. This leads to my questions. The AAF serial number of the plane is 44-74009. The first two numbers are the year the plane was built, correct? And once a plane has that serial number, can it be changed or does it stay with that airframe forever like a VIN on a car? The earliest info I can find on this plane is a build number and delivery date in January of 1951. The history goes all the way up to one of the four present day owners. So was this plane built in 1944 or in early 1951? If it was built in 1944, what was it doing for the seven years before it was delivered to RCAF?

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Reply #1 - Jun 8^th, 2010 at 1:53pm

ShaneG Offline
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Every way I search it, it comes back to either the delivery date you have found, or this page, which says it wasn't even built until 1961. Huh

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N51KB.html ; They must be referring to a restoration build I imagine.

warbird-central.com appears to have the most info on it, but nothing about it's pre-1951 location.

This page here, at least confirms the 1944 build date:
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1944_5.html

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Reply #2 - Jun 8^th, 2010 at 2:01pm

Hagar Offline
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I found an explanation of USAAF serial numbers here ---> http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

Note that the first 2 digits reflect the Fiscal Year in which the order for the aircraft is placed, NOT the year in which it is delivered. Therefore 44-74009 was ordered in 1944.

Unlike military serials, FAA civil registrations can be changed or re-issued. I see that this aircraft has had at least 3 different civil registration numbers since leaving RCAF service. (To civilian registry as N6323T, N988C, N51KB with B&K Leasing, Nantucket, MA.)

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Reply #3 - Jun 8^th, 2010 at 2:36pm

expat Offline
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I would have thought that you will get further using her build SN c/n 122-40549 than the production order number. She went to the RCAF as 9275 Jan. 11, 1951, she must have some history before that. Production ended in 1945 so some paperwork must be gathering dust somewhere. The way I would go about it is to gather as many part s/n's as possible that still appear to be original items (not replaced life Ex etc) and approach the USAF for archive material.

Matt

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Reply #4 - Jun 8^th, 2010 at 2:55pm

Hagar Offline
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Without further information I suspect that this aircraft was built too late for USAAF service & put into storage before delivery to the RCAF in January 1951. It's had several different owners & identities since. It was painted as Miss Kat Brat in a previous life. http://mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51who/90.shtml

This is its history since delivery to the RCAF in January 1951 as s/n 9275. Quote:

Ex USAF P-51D-25-NA serial number 44-74009. Served post war with No. 424 Squadron (Auxiliary) at Mount Hope, Ontario, coded "BA*275". With No. 442 and 443 Squadrons (Auxiliary) at RCAF Station Sea Island, BC in 1950s. Sold to James H. Defuria and Fred J. Ritts (dba Intercontinental Airways of Canastota, NY) on 25 February 1957. Registered as N6323T. To Aero Enterprises, Elkhart, IN on 1 May 1960. Registered as N988C. to Suncoast Aviation, St. Petersburg, FL on 8 July 1961. To A. Fasken, Midland, TX on 29 September 1962. To Houston Aircraft Sales, Houston, TX on 1 May 1963. To William Fiore, Clairton, PA on 30 April 1965. To Frank Cannavo Jr, Lester, PA on 3 February 1968. To Robert J. Shaver, Brigantine & Linwood, NJ on 26 June 1969. To Robert L. Ferguson, Wellesley, MA 1979. Flew named "Ain't Misbehavin", coded "RL-F". To B&K Leasing Inc, Nantucket, MA on 17 September 2001. Registered as N51KB.

http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_9251_9300_detailed.html

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Reply #5 - Jun 9^th, 2010 at 10:44am

brettt777 Offline
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Hagar wrote on Jun 8^th, 2010 at 2:01pm:

I found an explanation of USAAF serial numbers here ---> http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

Note that the first 2 digits reflect the Fiscal Year in which the order for the aircraft is placed, NOT the year in which it is delivered. Therefore 44-74009 was ordered in 1944.

Unlike military serials, FAA civil registrations can be changed or re-issued. I see that this aircraft has had at least 3 different civil registration numbers since leaving RCAF service. (To civilian registry as N6323T, N988C, N51KB with B&K Leasing, Nantucket, MA.)

So the "N" number can be changed; I knew that, but you are saying the military serial number cannot be changed? Is it possible that this aircraft was ordered in 1944 but was never built until early 1951?
Okay another question... Oh and by the way, many thanks to all that answered. Thanks guys!
Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the USAAF become the USAF sometime prior to Korea? And if so were the existing P-51s just redesignated as F-51s? Could this plane have served in Korea as an F-51? I have no idea if the RCAF was in Korea. Just a thought.

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Reply #6 - Jun 9^th, 2010 at 11:15am

expat Offline
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From wiki

In 1947, the newly-formed USAF Strategic Air Command employed Mustangs alongside F-6 Mustangs and F-82 Twin Mustangs, due to their range capabilities. In 1948, the designation P-51 (P for pursuit) was changed to F-51 (F for fighter), and the existing F designator for photographic reconnaissance aircraft was dropped because of a new designation scheme throughout the USAF. Aircraft still in service in the USAF or Air National Guard (ANG) when the system was changed included: F-51B, F-51D, F-51K, RF-51D (formerly F-6D), RF-51K (formerly F-6K), and TRF-51D (two-seat trainer conversions of F-6Ds). They remained in service from 1946 through 1951.

As for the built year of "your" Mustang, the production run was only from 1940 until 1945. Service ended in 1951. Very very unlikely she was a later build, unless she was built from left over parts.

You could try contacting Boeing archives. They owned North American in the end. All the North American archive material and company records must have gone somewhere. If you are lucky they may still be gathering dust some place.

Matt

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