I have heard many times from FS ATC to "...Enter Right / Left downwind".

ok. I know Upwind, Crosswind, Downwind, Base > Final.  I get that it is an oval shape next to the airport.   


on a HDG 275, landing @ KCHS Rwy 33, ...... "N176CM, Enter Right Downwind"



do I turn BEFORE i get to the airport and make a right handed loop so the airport is to PORT, and come back around for the runway, and get lined up on HDG 330??? or do i turn right go completely around the airport and come back for 330?


(i guess i need to break out my "old" sectionals that i got from a USAIR pilot and study up some more). hmmmm

The pattern is more of a rectangle than an oval - no wind turns 90°.  if you are landing Rwy 33 and the pattern is right traffic, your downwind heading is the reciprocal - 150°, on the east side of the airport, so a forty five entry to that right downwind from your heading of 275° would be at pattern altitude on a heading of 230° from the east side of the airport.  When you report at this point, the controller will point out the traffic he wants you to follow and you would comply  .

Capt.Propwash wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 11:14pm:


ATC in FS usually clears you to land when you pass the threshold while on the downwind.  You simply continue the traffic pattern.  When the numbers are at a 45 degree angle behind you, you turn 90 degrees towards the runway, which is the base leg.  Then you turn final and land.  I would suggest studying up a little on traffic patterns, it will make much more sense to you.

Capt.Propwash wrote on Apr 15^th, 2010 at 9:09pm:


The reason is that ATC in the sim is pretty stupid. 

In RL, I have often been cleared onto an extended base leg specifically. Sometimes they say "right (or left) traffic". sometimes they specify a leg to enter. They generally try to make it as simple and expedient as possible, depending on your bearing as you approach the airport... when possible, they'll give you whatever you need to keep it simple.

But the scenario you describe could happen in RL, so here's what you do, rather than fly the figure you showed (the problem with the pattern you show is that the runway should be in the middle, between the upwind and downwind legs):

Turn right, as soon as they give you the instruction, and head for a point a few miles NE of the field, to then turn left and enter the right downwind at a 45-degree angle (or thereabouts). Normally you'd enter the downwind leg about where the crosswind leg would start, or somewhere between there and the runway threshold.

Or, because it's only a sim, ignore the stupid AI and just enter on a right base.   

Brett_Henderson wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 6:55am:

Well, as I understand it, yes and no...
If you do a touch-and-go, or abort from short final, I guess you fly an upwind leg right over the runway. You could even call the normal path from the runway, when taking off to enter the pattern, the "upwind leg".

But if you go around at some point before you're actually on short final, you're "supposed to" offset to the side of the runway opposite the downwind, right (to be clear of the runway in case another plane is close behind you on final)? That puts you on an upwind leg.
And sometimes pilots will opt to actually enter the pattern on the upwind leg, rather than fly a straight-in, if they happen to be coming in from that direction. In that case, their spacing from the runway will be the same as for the downwind leg.

It's sort of like how the crosswind leg might be the part when you are climbing from the runway to join the downwind, about a mile from the threshold, or it could be that same path at TPA, flown by arriving traffic... or arriving traffic could fly a crosswind that's right over the threshold, or even midfield.

At any rate, my point was that the diagram shows the entire pattern offset from the runway, which is definitely not correct. You'd never fly an upwind that was on the same side of the runway as the downwind leg... it should be either right over the runway or on the other side.

Here's a little diagram from Wiki - left traffic but right traffic is just across the runway  .  Sorry I didn't enlarge.                              

ViperPilot wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 10:08am:



Normally.. you just end up at TPA where a Vy climb decides .. with a good headwind, on a winter day.. that might very well be before you turn crosswind  .. or at a long runway, you can still be OVER the runway at TPA

I usually achieve TPA on the downwind.  I was taught to turn crosswind at 500 feet.  I think part of the thought process on that is to start the turn back towards the runway in case of engine failure.  I was also taught to fly upwinds slight offset from the runway in case there is traffic on the runway below you and climbing.

DaveSims wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 10:44am:

You should be at TPA before turning downwind.

Turning downwind before reaching pattern altitude puts you in perfect position to be landed on by someone descending to pattern altitude while entering the pattern on the 45.

Capt. Propwash, the important thing to remember, as stated by others, when you are cleared for a "right downwind" you are being told that the pattern is right turns, not that you need to make a right turn to enter the pattern.

Hope this helps.

cheers,
Joe

olderndirt wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 2:35pm:



Fun haters  

ViperPilot wrote on Apr 16^th, 2010 at 10:26am:

The only really important thing is to not climb up or drop down into the downwind leg, for obvious reasons... how you manage that is up to you.

now i think i understand.   when ATC tells you the pattern, they are telling you which direction the "PATTERN" is, they leave it up to you to figure out how the hell to get into it.   got 'cha

there are just some things that "the learning center" should 'SHOW' you to teach you.  ... lol, then again it just might and i didnt look hard enough.


one thing that my boss always says when he wants someone to go rummage through the trucks to find something, and you cant find it .. is "IF YOU CAN'T FIND IT, IT'S BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LOOK HARD ENOUGH!!!"

in some reguards, that could also go for help on Flight Sim.  If you want help to a problem, and you cant find an answer, (someone) didnt look hard enough for the answer before asking for help in finding it. 


[if anyone really notices, i rarely ever ask for help to situations about flight sim on here, as I had learned 6 years ago that GOOGLE was my friend  ]

If you understand the 'Theorem of Pythagoras', you'll have no trouble with forty five to the downwind  .