Simviation Forum - More ignorant 'reporters'

Mar 25^th, 2010 at 11:16pm

specter177 Offline
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/25/faa-issues-safety-warning-homemade-planes/

And more stupidity from the FAA.

Yea some homebuilt aircraft have a high stall speed, so does a P-51. It doesn't make them more dangerous.

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Reply #1 - Mar 25^th, 2010 at 11:58pm

SeanTK Ex Member

Welcome to the world of US ~~news~~ entertainment. Roll Eyes

//Also, it's Fox News....what were you expecting? Cheesy

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Reply #2 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 12:14am

specter177 Offline
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It's not a Fox article, it's an AP article.

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Reply #3 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 1:05am

SeanTK Ex Member

My mistake on the Fox reference then. Grin

Still, the previous sentence to that post stands. Cheesy

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Reply #4 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:43am

Hagar Offline
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I'm not sure what they're getting at here. After losing his propeller at altitude the pilot had no choice but to make a forced landing. From the PHOTO I've seen of the incident the aircraft made a perfect "dead stick" landing on the beach & the occupants were uninjured. Unfortunately a jogger was in the way. It was a tragic accident & no fault of the aircraft design.

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Reply #5 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 6:04am

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Quote:

My mistake on the Fox reference then. Grin

Still, the previous sentence to that post stands. Cheesy

Yeah.. and if it were on ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/PBS ... airplane stalls would be reported as caused by global warming.. Roll Eyes

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Reply #6 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 9:45am

Al_Fallujah Ex Member

Brett_Henderson wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 6:04am:

Quote:

My mistake on the Fox reference then. Grin

Still, the previous sentence to that post stands. Cheesy

Yeah.. and if it were on ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/PBS ... airplane stalls would be reported as caused by global warming.. Roll Eyes

This conversation is in danger of going the wrong direction fast..
That being said, the comparison to a P-51 is not very good.

The guys that ended up in those cockpits got a lot of extra training on that aircraft, and how to handle it.

There is no such program for the Lancair.

The article also mentioned, being kit planes, that some owners may modify them. I have not read all the accident reports, but if there is evidence of such, that is important. I would like to see the report showing that. I would think Lancair would want it as well.

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Reply #7 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 10:32am

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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Why is this news? I've flown a Lancair, and yes it has a high stall speed. The FAA issues A/D's, advisory circulars, and statements all the time and they never get into the news. The AP may have first reported it, but somehow I sense the big 3 networks are itching to sensationalize it. Shame on them for that.

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Reply #8 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 12:17pm

Al_Fallujah Ex Member

The FAA made put out a publication that ties directly to a recent fatal accident.

I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

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Reply #9 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 12:35pm

machineman9 Offline
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Slow flying 'fast' aircraft are likely to stall? This is news?

I don't see how this relates to the beach incident... That was an oil leak, not someone flying deliberately with low speed.

If you don't know that an aeroplane will stall below a certain speed, you shouldn't have your license. All planes are affected, not just homebuilt ones.

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Reply #10 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 1:06pm

Hagar Offline
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machineman9 wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 12:35pm:

Slow flying 'fast' aircraft are likely to stall? This is news?

I don't see how this relates to the beach incident... That was an oil leak, not someone flying deliberately with low speed.

I think the point here is that there is no sign that the aircraft stalled. It made what would have been a classic forced landing. See the photo from the link I posted earlier. If that poor jogger hadn't been in the way they would be praising the pilot for his superb airmanship.

The general public & media reporters very often confuse an engine stalling with an aerodynamic stall. After reading an unrelated FAA report on the Lancair I suspect a reporter added two & two together & made five.

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Reply #11 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:02pm

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I'll tell you why this is news. Some reporter, in an effort to find a greater meaning to the crash last week, and create a better "behind the scenes" article, googled or searched for "Lancair". This report is what came up.

Dave

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Reply #12 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:09pm

Hagar Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:02pm:

I'll tell you why this is news. Some reporter, in an effort to find a greater meaning to the crash last week, and create a better "behind the scenes" article, googled or searched for "Lancair". This report is what came up.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The average person has no concept of an aerodynamic stall. Why should they if they have no knowledge of aviation? The word "stall" is naturally associated with stalling the engine in their cars. Anyone who has ever driven a motor vehicle has stalled the engine at some time.

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Reply #13 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:10pm

Al_Fallujah Ex Member

Found this:

Though it was posted Thursday, the bulletin was dated March 9 -- a week before the emergency landing of a Lancair IV-P on a beach near Palmetto Dunes, a regional FAA spokeswoman confirmed Thursday

Read more: http://www.islandpacket.com/2010/03/25/1185334/faa-issues-bulletin-on-kit-built....

So the bulletin came out before the incedent. Something the AP missed.

It was probably a slow news day.

I think you are over reacting though.

The FAA posted something, the news reported it. I guess I fail to see why your getting hyped up about it.

Its the news media. If there is no news to report, they will make it.

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Reply #14 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:36pm

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Hagar wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:09pm:

DaveSims wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:02pm:

I'll tell you why this is news. Some reporter, in an effort to find a greater meaning to the crash last week, and create a better "behind the scenes" article, googled or searched for "Lancair". This report is what came up.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The average person has no concept of an aerodynamic stall. Why should they if they have no knowledge of aviation? The word "stall" is naturally associated with stalling the engine in their cars. Anyone who has ever driven a motor vehicle has stalled the engine at some time.

Except for here in the US where +80% of the cars have automatic transmissions.

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Reply #15 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 8:57pm

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Hagar wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:09pm:

DaveSims wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 3:02pm:

I'll tell you why this is news. Some reporter, in an effort to find a greater meaning to the crash last week, and create a better "behind the scenes" article, googled or searched for "Lancair". This report is what came up.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The average person has no concept of an aerodynamic stall. Why should they if they have no knowledge of aviation? The word "stall" is naturally associated with stalling the engine in their cars. Anyone who has ever driven a motor vehicle has stalled the engine at some time.

The reporter has no knowledge of aviation. Neither does their editor...or 90% of their readers. Only 1 in 400 people in the US have a pilot's license, we are a very small percentage, and easily targeted by the uninformed.

Dave

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Reply #16 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 1:20am

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It's pathetic... especially the FAA's "warning"... doesn't matter what Vs or Vso is for any airplane; if you know what it is, you won't get into trouble.
but of course, all of that is irrelvant in this case... Roll Eyes

The key factor, in this accident, was not stall speed- it was the fact that the Lancair basically glides like a brick without power. The wing is optimized for cruise, not slow flight. Under normal conditions it's not a problem, but without power, your options are very limited.

The pilot didn't have a lot of time, his view of the touchdown point was restricted due to the oil, and he sure as hell couldn't slip it to look out the side window, or the descent rate would have increased to the point where he and his pax would be in grave danger, even if the airplane didn't actually stall.

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Reply #17 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 10:37pm

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With this plethora of 'technical' jargon about the d*mn airplane, it's often easy to forget the poor guy who died. It's true what they say - "Dangerous, h*ll you can get killed just jogging on the beach."

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #18 - Mar 28^th, 2010 at 3:25am

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olderndirt wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

With this plethora of 'technical' jargon about the d*mn airplane, it's often easy to forget the poor guy who died. It's true what they say - "Dangerous, h*ll you can get killed just jogging on the beach."

Good point- you have to wonder if the deceased was one of those people who'd "never go up in one of those little planes" because it's too risky... Roll Eyes

Seriously, though- it is terrble. My worst nightmare as a pilot is not getting hurt- it's hurting someone else, especially someone on the ground, who unlike a passenger, has assumed no risk involved with my flight. There's something very unfair about that. The Lancair pilot must feel terrible about it.

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Reply #19 - Mar 28^th, 2010 at 4:38am

Hagar Offline
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beaky wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 3:25am:

olderndirt wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

With this plethora of 'technical' jargon about the d*mn airplane, it's often easy to forget the poor guy who died. It's true what they say - "Dangerous, h*ll you can get killed just jogging on the beach."

Good point- you have to wonder if the deceased was one of those people who'd "never go up in one of those little planes" because it's too risky... Roll Eyes

Seriously, though- it is terrble. My worst nightmare as a pilot is not getting hurt- it's hurting someone else, especially someone on the ground, who unlike a passenger, has assumed no risk involved with my flight. There's something very unfair about that. The Lancair pilot must feel terrible about it.

The point is that it was a tragic accident. Accidents happen all the time. These people are trying to turn it into something else.

My sympathy has always been with the unfortunate jogger & the pilot. On a different tack, I've seen it mentioned that the jogger might have been listening to an iPod through earphones. This is a common practice which has always worried me as these people are totally unaware of their surroundings. Not that the jogger in this case would have heard the aircraft but he could have missed shouted warnings.

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Reply #20 - Mar 28^th, 2010 at 12:06pm

machineman9 Offline
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Hagar wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 4:38am:

beaky wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 3:25am:

olderndirt wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 10:37pm:

With this plethora of 'technical' jargon about the d*mn airplane, it's often easy to forget the poor guy who died. It's true what they say - "Dangerous, h*ll you can get killed just jogging on the beach."

Good point- you have to wonder if the deceased was one of those people who'd "never go up in one of those little planes" because it's too risky... Roll Eyes

Seriously, though- it is terrble. My worst nightmare as a pilot is not getting hurt- it's hurting someone else, especially someone on the ground, who unlike a passenger, has assumed no risk involved with my flight. There's something very unfair about that. The Lancair pilot must feel terrible about it.

The point is that it was a tragic accident. Accidents happen all the time. These people are trying to turn it into something else.

My sympathy has always been with the unfortunate jogger & the pilot. On a different tack, I've seen it mentioned that the jogger might have been listening to an iPod through earphones. This is a common practice which has always worried me as these people are totally unaware of their surroundings. Not that the jogger in this case would have heard the aircraft but he could have missed shouted warnings.

Earphones versus speaker dock... I'd much prefer the earphones option where people listen to their own music rather than inflicting it on the rest of us. From time to time though, earphones do have their downside where you can't hear your surroundings.

But rightly so, it is a tragic accident which, as per usual, has been turned into something different by the media.

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