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Speaking of Schrage Musik... (Read 381 times)

Mar 20^th, 2010 at 5:46pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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This He-219 (prototype of dedicated CFS2 versions in the form of the A2 and A2R1 coming in the near future) is just returning from a test flight with her new Schrage Musik system. Cool

Cool

The Schrage Musik system consists of a pair of 30mm cannon mounted mid fuselage and firing upward at a 65-degree angle. This system was deadly when used against allied bombers, particularly the Lancasters which had no ventral turret and suffered from a blind spot beneath. The system was aimed with a special sight in the pilot's cockpit. The guns are now working properly...now to see if I can get a sight installed. Then, of course, I have to finish the plane. Tongue

Tongue

In addition to the SM 30mm system, the 219 also carried from 2-6 forward firing 20mm and 30mm cannon in her belly pack and wing roots, plus extra fuel tanks in the engine nacelles. The Owl is a real piece of work. Cheesy

Cheesy

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #1 - Mar 21^st, 2010 at 9:42pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Well. I started out by converting Gurzeka's old He219 from FS2000 to use as a test-bed for the Schrage Musik system. But this old bird is so cute and since I have the source file, I'm gonna do a new dedicated CFS2 version. I've already put a panel together, and Sopwith is thinking about a new skin.

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #2 - Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 5:45pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Slowly building the new version from the source on up. She won't be ready tomorrow, but we're forging ahead. Smiley

She might even get a decent DVC...if I can talk Bismarck into doing a job on her. Wink

Wink

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #3 - Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 8:42pm

Ravenna Offline
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Stop it....I'm starting to drool on the keyboard. Beautiful work and I love that 2d panel! Cool

Cool

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Reply #4 - Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 10:14pm

bismarck13 Offline
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If you straighten out the Schrage Musik thing maybe I'll have a go at the DVC. I have no clue how to make it so you can aim the guns from the DVC but I imagine it could be done somehow. I wonder how they did it on the real aircraft????

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Reply #5 - Mar 23^rd, 2010 at 6:40am

Tango_Romeo Offline
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They real deal had a second gunsight mounted on the canopy bow, so that the pilot just had to look up.....the guns were elevated at an angle of 65 degrees, and, of course were mounted in the fuselage just aft of the trailing edge of the wing. Cool

Cool

I'm looking into a dedicated panel window with a simple sight looking up...it'll have to be a keystroke window, as you can't hold the hatswitch, fly and fire all at the same time. Film at 11. Cheesy

Cheesy

If it works, it can be dropped into the 110s as well....don't know what got me started on the 219, but she's giving me a fit. Cry

Cry

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #6 - Mar 24^th, 2010 at 12:54am

Tango_Romeo Offline
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It's going to be awhile before I can get the new He-219 up and running, but my conversion of Mike's FS2000 aircraft works so well in CFS2 and is just plain fun to fly that I have posted it for download. I dropped a nice new 2D panel into her to makeup for the lack of a DVC for now. I think you'll enjoy playing with this one for the time being. She should be up tomorrow. Grin

Grin

Window01 (SHIFT+2) gives you one hell of a nav panel for mucking about in the dark over Europe...without getting lost. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #7 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 9:00pm

Bonesimoto Offline
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Tom, Gryphon did a 219 for CFS1 and I think Obio took the Gryphon and Gurzeka's 219 and combined them, he has an A5 and A7. Those two of Obio's rework are the only 219s I formerly could get to work, I fly the A7 because it has the Scrage Musik. Here's my point:

The readme for I'm pretty sure it's the Gryphon contains a statement the sight for the upward firing guns is activated by the "hat" key(probably a misspelling of "hotkey"). I'm not versed in CFS2 enough to know what the hotkey" is so I've never used the upward sight. You guys study the Gryphon(it maybe be Gurzeka's)219 it might be instructive on how they did the sight for their 219.

I didn't want to bother Obio asking him 11 dozen questions so I just set my tracers at 80 and sight by a short burst under a given plane. I like to see a stream of fire go up. Obio's mutation of these planes, his A7, is the first plane for CFS2 I ever downloaded when I got the sim back in Oct. The Stirling Heavy Bomber and Short Stirling also don't have a lower turret. Aim for the wing roots!

Bismark informs me the first model 110 to have these guns was the -F model, I hope he does skins and you make a mod for this experimental -F.

Carry on, you all do great work.

Bones Der Nachtjager

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Reply #8 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 2:34am

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Bones, he did mean 'hat switch', that being the 4-way switch on the top of the joystick. Pushing it forward gives you an upward view. Cool

Cool

Gryphon did a sight that was activated in that view. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #9 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 4:49am

Tango_Romeo Offline
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I've finished adapting the original Gryphon Aviation Schrage Musik sighting system for use on the CFS2 He-219A5. This system was originally developed for use on their CFS1 He-219. Cheesy

Cheesy

AND I've uploaded a conversion kit that allows you to add the system to the He-219A5 posted on page 19 of the CFS2 New Files. Smiley

It should be available by morning. Smiley

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #10 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 7:21am

Bonesimoto Offline
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You mod has not shown up as of this writing, that's not a problem. It'll be there.

I have the Saitek St-90 joystick and a recent addition from Goodwill, the Logitech Attack 3. Both have their pluses and minuses. I'm pretty sure neither has this "hatkey" though as I said, I got my own method of sighting, but I am looking forward to your mod. There is a sight on the roof of the Fw-190 nightfighter here at Simviation, it's so far back it's useless, without setting a high tracer number it's impossible to get any hits. I get my upper views by using the Shift+Number Pad 8.

A mod I'd like to see is for the top 4 .50 turret on the P-61. I know many were removed, but sometimes flying night missions and standing off and blowing a plane out of the sky from a stern attack gets boring. Being able to turn and elevate those guns would be fun. One of my favorite planes is Akemi-san's Myrt, you can sight the 37mm from a forward view.

Night missions to me are like sub warfare, which I love. You first try to sneak under a plane unnoticed, then looking up and sighting the guns and firing while flying the plane is a challenge but fun challenge.

Have a good one Tom.

Bones

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Reply #11 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 11:07am

ozzy72 Offline
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Beautiful planes Cool

Cool

Cool

Cool

Now to go killing Smiley

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #12 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 12:51pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Bonesimoto wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 7:21am:

You mod has not shown up as of this writing, that's not a problem. It'll be there.

That's strange, very strange! Perhaps I'd better redo the upload.

No your joysticks don't have a hat switch....Google the Logitech Extreme and you'll see one that has.

The forward_up view on the hat switch is a 45-degree up and forward view, which works very well with the sight installed. It's use is self-evident when you look at the screen. Wink

Wink

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #13 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 1:14pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Apparently something went wrong with the upload last night, so I've reloaded the Scharge Musik conversion kit this morning...maybe it'll make it to the download que by tomorrow. I had to try twice to get the system to accept it this morning. LOL Undecided

Undecided

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #14 - Mar 28^th, 2010 at 10:49am

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Tango_Romeo wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 1:14pm:

Apparently something went wrong with the upload last night, so I've reloaded the Scharge Musik conversion kit this morning...maybe it'll make it to the download que by tomorrow. I had to try twice to get the system to accept it this morning. LOL Undecided

Undecided

The Kit download made it to the que this time around. Third time's the charm and all that.

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #15 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 7:02am

Bonesimoto Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 11:07am:

Beautiful planes Cool

Cool

Cool

Cool

Now to go killing Smiley

Ja ja, ve ist mit der Schrage Musik mod and und macht mit commiten der morder.

Lt. Wolfgang Prinze von Schweinhund

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Reply #16 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 7:05am

Bonesimoto Offline
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Tango_Romeo wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 10:49am:

Tango_Romeo wrote on Mar 27^th, 2010 at 1:14pm:

Apparently something went wrong with the upload last night, so I've reloaded the Scharge Musik conversion kit this morning...maybe it'll make it to the download que by tomorrow. I had to try twice to get the system to accept it this morning. LOL Undecided

Undecided

The Kit download made it to the que this time around. Third time's the charm and all that.

I got the mod almost as soon as it popped up Tom. I've flown all the 219s extent, and it was certainly not a dogfighter. They don;t like the new joystick, I'm gonna go back to the Saitek for 219s. Cool mod too, thanks.

Bones

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Reply #17 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 12:26pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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SopwithC abandoned both his airbrush and his Stratocaster long enough to test out the Kit, and it seems to work pretty well from the looks of his screenie...you can just see the muzzleflash of the 30mm over the aft fuselage. Cool

Cool

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #18 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 5:39pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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The following is the content of the old Gryphon Aviation page describing how to use their CFS1 SM gunsight. I have no idea whether it will work this way in CFS2, or if we just have to stick with the forward_up view system...but you may want to experiment a bit..... Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

The Schrage Musik Gunsight

"Schrage Musik" ("Slanted Music, or "Jazz") is the term used for a gun configuration used in Luftwaffe night fighters in the Second World War. First experimented with in 1941, the use of cannon angled to fire upwards between 60 and 80 degrees became standard equipment on most two engined night fighters by the end of 1943. This enabled the Luftwaffe pilots to fly below the RAF bombers (who had no armament--or even a window--to observe below!) and fire up into their unprotected underside. In fact, the greatest danger to a fighter using Schrage Musik was often getting out of the way of the stricken target as it fell to earth!

The Schrage Musik in the He219 were usually two MK108 30 mm cannon with 100 rpg angled upwards at 65 degrees. The upward firing cannon are on the secondary armament firing keys "2" on the keyboard or as you choose to program them on your joystick.

The Sight in CFS1

To replicate the Schrage Musik gun sight, you have three options:

* Standard Padlock
* Standard gunsight in a new window
* Padlock ladder sight in a new window

Standard Padlock

When you lock on to a target ("Tab" key) and you are in the proper position to fire from below it, hit the "~" key and the sight will come into view. It is a "ladder" type with a middle cross hair for the firing position. If the legs of the ladder are to starboard, you are approaching the target. If the legs are to port you have passed the target and must slow down or come around for another attempted shot.

NOTE: The ladder site responds opposite to the direction you turn the airplane. If you bank right, it will swing left and vice versa. This is due to the function of the padlock maintaining track on the target but showing the relationship to your airplane. It can be confusing on the first few attempts and has the added disadvantage of putting the bright yellow brackets around your target. If you’re trying for realism, you’ll want to avoid using padlock.

Standard gunsight in a new window

1. Set this sight up by opening a new window (using the "[" key on the keyboard).

2. To set the upward angle click the "Enter" and "Backspace" keys at the same time (fifteen clicks or so, depending on your computer). The sight will initially appear as a small green + mark (you may need to Right Click with the mouse over this window and select "Virtual Cockpit" so see the green + mark).

3. Clicking outside the new window will bring up the normal gun sight in this window (if it doesn’t appear, you may need to Right Click with the mouse and select "Cockpit View."

Use "enter and backspace" simultaneously and click 15 times to set the sight angle for the upward guns.

Padlock ladder sight in a new window

After you have locked on to a target, open a new window with the "[" key. Once you’ve encountered the enemy, click on "Tab" and then padlock "~" and now the ladder sight will appear in that window when you are in the proper position to fire. This method allows you to maintain aircraft attitude (difficult for some in padlock view) and still see the ladder sight and the target.

NOTE: The ladder site responds opposite to the direction you turn the airplane. If you bank right, it will swing left and vice versa. This is due to the function of the padlock maintaining track on the target but showing the relationship to your airplane. It can be confusing on the first few attempts.

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #19 - Apr 5^th, 2010 at 2:38am

Bonesimoto Offline
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Tango_Romeo wrote on Mar 29^th, 2010 at 12:26pm:

SopwithC abandoned both his airbrush and his Stratocaster long enough to test out the Kit, and it seems to work pretty well from the looks of his screenie...you can just see the muzzleflash of the 30mm over the aft fuselage. Cool

Cool

[img]

That's the view I like best TR.

I'd love to jam with SC sometime. I been playing 45 years now, everything from Electric Prunes to Slipknot. I can play Van Halen, I do not like Van Halen. I got a Peavey Strat for now, and an Epiphone Flying V in layaway. I'd going to be contacting Ed Roman in Vegas about his copies of the old Vox Teardrops.

I do night intercepts in a 219 while listening to Ozzy and Hendrix.

Bones

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Reply #20 - Apr 5^th, 2010 at 1:07pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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Man, you guys are way ahead of me....I'm still pickin' on the Gibson Les Paul I bought used for $125 in 1958. Grin

Grin

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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Reply #21 - Apr 6^th, 2010 at 4:33pm

SopwithC Offline
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Bonesimoto wrote on Apr 5^th, 2010 at 2:38am:

Tango_Romeo wrote on Mar 29^th, 2010 at 12:26pm:

SopwithC abandoned both his airbrush and his Stratocaster long enough to test out the Kit, and it seems to work pretty well from the looks of his screenie...you can just see the muzzleflash of the 30mm over the aft fuselage. Cool

Cool

That'stheviewIlikebestTR.I'dlovetojamwithSCsometime.Ibeenplaying45yearsnow,everythingfromElectricPrunestoSlipknot.IcanplayVanHalen,IdonotlikeVanHalen.IgotaPeaveyStratfornow,andanEpiphoneFlyingVinlayaway.I'dgoingtobecontactingEdRomaninVegasabouthiscopiesoftheoldVoxTeardrops.Idonightinterceptsina219whilelisteningtoOzzyandHendrix.Bones

........wellI'dreallyliketodothatsometime-butnotVanHalen(toomanynotesDearBoy,toomanynotes......... Shocked

Shocked

)IgigmostlywithmytrustyStrat,butIjustgotmeaHofnerVerithin(youhavetobefromthissideofthePondtoknowwhatthatmeans)-takesmerightbacktothe'60'swhereIstarttedandIgottosaythatitsthesweetestthingIeverpickedon..............butI'dkillfora'58LesPaul(Letssee,$125,thatwouldhavebeen£31:'()........Here'smyHeros:[img]http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/22262431CA320A11E68436AC1818E.jpg

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Reply #22 - Apr 7^th, 2010 at 12:00pm

Tango_Romeo Offline
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"........but I'd kill for a '58 Les Paul ( Lets see, $125, that would have been £31."

Let's see....I do know a couple of people who.... Grin

Grin

I did have to get the neck straightened after I left her with a friend while I was away in the service....and he stored her without taking the tension off the original round-wounds I earned my callouses with. Cry

Cry

........Here's my Heros:

And here I thought I was the only one around here old enough to have tangled with Peggy Sue, the Crickets, Mabelene and Hot Rod Lincoln. Huh

Huh

Many Hands Make Small Work P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm

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