Simviation Forum - Video artifacts during POST!! Should I put my GPU in the oven? YES!!

Reply #15 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 1:30am

HarvesteR Offline
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Thanks man

Just to follow up, it's now been six months since the oven fix, and I still haven't bought the replacement video card Cheesy

My 8800 is proving to be a real trooper... it's worked without a hitch all this while... not that I've had much time to play and stress it with work and all (which nearly consumes my life), but it's nice to know that my GPU is still alive and kicking after so long. I've even used it for some heavy duty 3D rendering work... there were times when I completely forgot that this card was ever once broken beyond repair.

This week I felt that the lack of playing was about to drive me nuts, so I got to playing ArmA2 again... I did get some artifacts once (they were up for a very short while), and didn't see them again after the restart that promptly followed that... I guess it was acting out because of the lack of attention of the last months Roll Eyes

Anyways, just wanted to confirm that this is a very valid fix for dead-broken hardware... and if you feel like you haven't anything to lose, give it a try, it might just work

I'm still gonna get a new card soon... (I've been telling this to myself all this time), but at least my rig's working... and once this card finally retires, I might just hang it on a wall Wink

Cheers

NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64

My 8800 GTX has at last retired... may it rest in peace in GPU heaven.

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Reply #16 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 1:44pm

alrot Offline
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Ok my English its failing me again,So you put a 8800 inside of an oven?

is this a way to weld detached components?

Venezuela

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Reply #17 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 5:28pm

Rich H Offline
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alrot wrote on Sep 8^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

Ok my English its failing me again,So you put a 8800 inside of an oven?

is this a way to weld detached components?

Sounds weird, but yes. Wink

I don't really know about the whole why it works though.

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Reply #18 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 7:02pm

Fozzer Offline
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alrot wrote on Sep 8^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

Ok my English its failing me again,So you put a 8800 inside of an oven?

is this a way to weld detached components?

There are a number of examples of the process on U-Tube...

..although how any Electrolytic Capacitors on the PCB survive the intense heat of the oven is beyond me!... Shocked

...!

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« Last Edit: Sep 9^th, 2010 at 4:16am by Fozzer »

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Reply #19 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 7:25pm

Steve M Offline
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alrot wrote on Sep 8^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

Ok my English its failing me again,So you put a 8800 inside of an oven?

is this a way to weld detached components?

25 years ago I took an old television to an old tv repairman working out of his basement. When the younger tv repair gurus had already told me the tv was junk, The older man just reheated the solder points slightly, charged me 15 dollars and away I went. I still have that television and it still works.
So the concept isn't all that new.. When baking a card, you would be trying to bring those tiny solder points to a near liquid state and refresh the continuity of the connection.

Flying with twins is a lot of fun..

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Reply #20 - Sep 9^th, 2010 at 7:14am

NNNG Ex Member

iirc,

Due to environmental concerns they lowered or eliminated the lead content in the solder. The new solder over many cycles cracks and the circuit is broken. Melting the solder again fixes this issue. If I recall correctly, newer lead-free solder doesn't have this issue, so I doubt you'll see this work on anything newer than a GTX 285.

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Reply #21 - Sep 9^th, 2010 at 9:06pm

HarvesteR Offline
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Yes, these lead-free solders have a much lower melting point then regular leaded solder... so much so that the usual heating/cooling cycles from everyday use induce fatigue on them and they start to crack... apparently this is very common on HP pavillion laptops... and on series 8 nvidia cards as well Tongue

The oven technique is not only valid, there are professional tools for that... like this thing I found today on SparkFun

Granted, it's not an electric kitchen oven, but the principle is the same Wink

The oven is the post-apocalyptic way of doing it Cool

Cheers

NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64

My 8800 GTX has at last retired... may it rest in peace in GPU heaven.

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Reply #22 - Sep 10^th, 2010 at 11:29am

alrot Offline
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Quote:

..although how any Electrolytic Capacitors on the PCB survive the intense heat of the oven is beyond me!.

Oh yeah ,they blast as like Christmas or 5 July Firecrackers Grin

Ok,Ok I get it
its a re weld or re-sold the components and---

But don't you never Put in a Microwave oven
LMAO!! Grin

Venezuela

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Reply #23 - Sep 10^th, 2010 at 4:17pm

jime59 Offline
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I'm wondering if this method would work on an XBox360 suffering from the RROD ? Roll Eyes

The mind is like a parachute...it only works when it's open.

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Reply #24 - Sep 12^th, 2010 at 5:41pm

HarvesteR Offline
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jime59 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 4:17pm:

I'm wondering if this method would work on an XBox360 suffering from the RROD ? Roll Eyes

Well, it just might... I've read stories of people who claim they've brought RROD'ed Xboxes back from the dead...
AFAIK, RROD can't be repaired right? So if you're out of warranty you pretty much don't have anything to lose... it's worth the try!

Mind this though, the oven reflow is completely a last-case-beyond-repair-scenario solution. Before thinking of doing it you should exhaust all other possibilities for fixing your broken hardware. If you're definitely sure that the problem lies in failing hardware, then the oven can be a last-option fix that might just save your device. (with an almost as high chance of completely destroying it)

alrot wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 11:29am:

Ok,Ok I get it
its a re weld or re-sold the components and---

Hi Alex,

just to explain the principle behind this, the oven fix is basically a very crude way of doing reflow soldering, which is an industrial method for soldering large amounts of tiny components on a very dense PCB. (yes, these cards are being baked at the factory)

The industrial method uses a special soldering oven, with several different temperature zones (the cards roll through it on a conveyor belt), and very precisely controlled exposure times to these temperatures... but then, that is for MAKING the solders in the first place... your kitchen oven is quite good enough for just reflowing it.

The melting temperature of lead-free solder lies at about 150 - 180°C, so that's low enough for your oven to melt.
This same low melting point is what causes the solder to crack in the first place, but thankfully it also provides us with the solution. The components are relatively safe in the 200°C oven, because they had to be able to endure that anyways in the manufacture process.

Once the solder is hot enough, it becomes a liquid again and starts to flow... just enough to fill up the microfractures that appeared due to fatigue... the connections are remade, and the card can work again!

Of course, this method can only fix problem with broken solders... it can't revive a burned out component or fix broken PCB trails... also if a false or short circuit happened, it might have fried some component and the oven won't do much good there...

I hope this explains it.

Cheers

« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2010 at 1:28pm by HarvesteR »

NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64

My 8800 GTX has at last retired... may it rest in peace in GPU heaven.

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