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DUI Question (Read 1539 times)
Feb 16th, 2010 at 7:28pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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I recently made a very poor judgment call and drove while over the legal limit and have not been charged yet but am looking at a DUI on my record.  This is my only one and I believe I’m being charged with the lowest offense.   What implications would one DUI have on becoming a corporate or commercial pilot?  I know I can’t get my pilots license for a year, I already spoke to someone in the FAA about that here in Minneapolis but I’m looking out over the long term.  Has anyone here been through this experience before?  Where might be good place to go to ask this question?
Thank You!
 

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Reply #1 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:45pm

DaveSims   Offline
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From what I've seen, just one will sometimes be overlooked, but in a competitive industry it could still follow you around.    Many times airlines check your driving record,a history of traffic and alcohol violations thorws a red flag. Even repeated speeding tickets can hurt you.  If it is a one time event, I would be ready to explain it during an interview, that it was a momentary lapse of judgement, and you learned your lesson and would never allow it to happen again.
 
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Reply #2 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:02pm

SaultFresh   Offline
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I think that if it is only a one time offense, then you might be ok. I mean, nobody is perfect, and sometimes it takes mistakes to learn lessons. I know I used to have a wicked speeding problem, and although I was never caught, hitting a road sign at 120 clicks in a round about sure taught me my lesson. I will never street race ever, not on a street, not for money, not in my own car or a borrowed car, and not against friends. Never. Sometimes all it takes is one mistake to learn the most important lesson. Pilots make mistakes all the time, sometimes everyone pays that price, and sometimes no one pays that price. I think that you'll be ok if you've learned your lesson, and you have a good explanation when asked about it. Best of luck.
 
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Reply #3 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:32pm

DaveSims   Offline
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Yeah, like I said, they are looking for a pattern of destructive, anti-authoritive behavior.  One DUI is not a career ender, but several would be.  When I was in Pro Av in college, we had one guy who in just two years had four DUIs.  The Aviation department head finally pulled him aside and told him there was no future in aviation for him anymore and he should change majors.
 
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Reply #4 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 1:25am

Northwest 102   Offline
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Thanks for all the info. Was a wake up call, and I should have been more careful.  Waiting for this whole process to take it's course has been difficult too.  Just happy to know that I haven't ruined my chances to get into he cockpit of a King Air.

MIKE
 

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Reply #5 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:43am

beaky   Offline
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WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT TRY TO HIDE THIS FROM THE FAA. DO NOT LIE, OR OMIT, OR COVER-UP IN ANY WAY.

Assuming this is your first and last DUI, even if there's a conviction, you may have a chance.
But if you go through all the trouble and expense of getting the ratings you want, while hoping the FAA doesn't find out about your DUI, and they do at some later date, you will most likely have all your certs yanked, probably
permanently.

The FAA is very sensitive about being lied to... don't upset them. Don't even think about it. Many pilots have lost everything this way... DUIs, criminal convictions, medical conditions, etc, etc. If anyone else besides you knows about it, the FAA may find out. And when they do, they will tear up your certs... mostly because you tried to make them look stupid. Grin



As for the wisest way to reveal it to them... my advice is to consult an aviation attorney, even in an online forum. Or call AOPA; they offer legal advice for pilots.

I'd also recommend you check out this thread on the PoA forums (assuming you're not the same person, LOL):

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34318


The bottom line is that even if it is thrown out in court, it may still be on record. Sometimes the FAA (or aviation employer, or insurance company) asks "is there a record?" sometimes they ask "were you ever?". Find out what you need to know about the status of this DUI, even when it's "all over".... and DON'T TRY TO HIDE IT FROM THE FAA.

And one more piece of advice: don't drink and drive.  Smiley

 

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Reply #6 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:57am

expat   Offline
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A sideline question here, but what is the difference between drunk driving and DUI, or is it the same. Here in Europe, we have one offence, drunk driving and in 99.99% of cases an automatic ban and in 101% of cases a record.

Matt
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2010 at 6:11pm by expat »  

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Reply #7 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:02pm

Capt.Propwash   Offline
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over here in the states, if you are UNDER the legal limit, you may still be "drunk" but they can not charge you with DUI. ... DUI is basically only if you are OVER the legal limit.



In my State.. South Carolina, USA:: http://dui.drivinglaws.org/scarolina.php

First DUI Conviction

With a Blood Alcohol Content Under .10
License Suspension - 6 Months
Fine - $400
Jail – Minimum of 48 Hours – Maximum of 30 Days, or
48 Hours of Public Service Employment

With a Blood Alcohol Content .10 and Under .16
License Suspension - 6 Months
Fine - $500
Jail – Minimum of 72 Hours – Maximum of 30 Days, or
72 Hours of Public Service Employment

With a Blood Alcohol Content Above .16
License Suspension - 6 Months
Fine - $1,000
Jail – Minimum of 30 Days – Maximum of 90 Days, or
30 Days of Public Service Employment



If you blow OVER a .2.... forget about EVER getting your license back... EVER! You will never be able to drive a car, or fly a plane, or drive a Semi-Truck again.
 

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Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:06pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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Thank you rottydaddy for that.  I knew first off to not lie to the FAA when it comes time to get my license. I have a few hurdles I need to jump over before I can even consult the FAA about obtaining my private pilots licence such as Court ( Sad), find a job supervising again in this economy, and then saving up to prepay for all the instruction I need which won't be easy but attainable none the less.

I will look into the AOPA and/or aviation attorney and see what I can learn from them. I know here in Minnesota after 10 years you can have your DUI expunged from your record and I may look into that when I'm 36...Yikes!

And yes, Drinking + Driving =  Stupid!!  And will never happen again!
 

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Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 6:27pm

beaky   Offline
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Northwest 102 wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:06pm:
Thank you rottydaddy for that.  I knew first off to not lie to the FAA when it comes time to get my license. I have a few hurdles I need to jump over before I can even consult the FAA about obtaining my private pilots licence such as Court ( Sad), find a job supervising again in this economy, and then saving up to prepay for all the instruction I need which won't be easy but attainable none the less.

I will look into the AOPA and/or aviation attorney and see what I can learn from them. I know here in Minnesota after 10 years you can have your DUI expunged from your record and I may look into that when I'm 36...Yikes!

And yes, Drinking + Driving =  Stupid!!  And will never happen again!

Make sure you keep track of the status of that DUI, even when it is expunged. Assume nothing. Remember, you will be responsible for reporting this at every medical exam, etc. for as long as you hold any airman's certs.

It may turn out that you are free, at some point, to check "none" when it comes to DUIs, but make sure you are certain about that.
 

...
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Reply #10 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm

Steve M   Offline
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Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.
 

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Reply #11 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:38pm

olderndirt   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer
Good advice.  Most states have a program for first offenders where, if you comply with all the court's requirements, after five years the charge will be removed from your record.  This would then no longer require reporting it to either the FAA or a future employer. 
 

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Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am

expat   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt
 

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Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:48am

DaveSims   Offline
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expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt


There are so many technicalities that you can get off on its ridiculous.  For example, the officer in most states has to have an intital cause to stop you, in other words you have to break a traffic law.  We once had a guy get off scott free because the officer listed the initial cause to stop him as illegal lighting, because he was driving with his fog lights on.  Well if you scrutinize the law, fog lights are legal, so the initial cause was tossed out, and the DUI, even though he blew a .18!  Even though he was guilty of driving drunk, he got off because the officer didn't have probable cause to stop him.
 
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Reply #14 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 8:39am

machineman9   Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:48am:
expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt


There are so many technicalities that you can get off on its ridiculous.  For example, the officer in most states has to have an intital cause to stop you, in other words you have to break a traffic law.  We once had a guy get off scott free because the officer listed the initial cause to stop him as illegal lighting, because he was driving with his fog lights on.  Well if you scrutinize the law, fog lights are legal, so the initial cause was tossed out, and the DUI, even though he blew a .18!  Even though he was guilty of driving drunk, he got off because the officer didn't have probable cause to stop him.

If that was a drug raid and they accidently broke into the wrong house, I'm sure they wouldn't have let them off for 'accidently finding out' that they broke the law. Mad world  Grin
 

...
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Reply #15 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 5:56pm

Steve M   Offline
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expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt




The same applies to parts of Canada. It is really a good system for ONE time offenders. The blood alchohol levels for conviction have gotten lowered to the point of ridiculous. My girl had an afternoon birthday get together with friends where she had two glasses of wine in two hours. driving home she ran across a RIDE* checkpoint and was arrested for impaired driving. She only weighs 100 pounds. If convicted she would loose her job. I convinced her to get a lawyer, not the 200$ lawyer, but the 900$ lawyer. He pled guilty for her and bargained with the Crowns attorney. She got 40 hrs community service and no recorded charges unless she had any further altercations within the next 12 months. This was her only brush with the law in her life.
There would have really been no point in ruining her life over two glasses of wine. If she weighed in at 200 pounds she would not have blown over the limit.
The sad thing is, that repeat offenders often use this method. And that isn't the fault of the law.. it's the fault of the judges.   Smiley





*RIDE= Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere. ( Police checkpoints)
 

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Reply #16 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 6:47pm

expat   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 5:56pm:
expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt




The same applies to parts of Canada. It is really a good system for ONE time offenders. The blood alchohol levels for conviction have gotten lowered to the point of ridiculous. My girl had an afternoon birthday get together with friends where she had two glasses of wine in two hours. driving home she ran across a RIDE* checkpoint and was arrested for impaired driving. She only weighs 100 pounds. If convicted she would loose her job. I convinced her to get a lawyer, not the 200$ lawyer, but the 900$ lawyer. He pled guilty for her and bargained with the Crowns attorney. She got 40 hrs community service and no recorded charges unless she had any further altercations within the next 12 months. This was her only brush with the law in her life.
There would have really been no point in ruining her life over two glasses of wine. If she weighed in at 200 pounds she would not have blown over the limit.
The sad thing is, that repeat offenders often use this method. And that isn't the fault of the law.. it's the fault of the judges.   Smiley





*RIDE= Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere. ( Police checkpoints)      



Still, all that hassle because she just had to have an alcoholic drink when she knew she was going to be driving.

Matt
 

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Reply #17 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:36pm

Steve M   Offline
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expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 6:47pm:
Steve M wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 5:56pm:
expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt




The same applies to parts of Canada. It is really a good system for ONE time offenders. The blood alchohol levels for conviction have gotten lowered to the point of ridiculous. My girl had an afternoon birthday get together with friends where she had two glasses of wine in two hours. driving home she ran across a RIDE* checkpoint and was arrested for impaired driving. She only weighs 100 pounds. If convicted she would loose her job. I convinced her to get a lawyer, not the 200$ lawyer, but the 900$ lawyer. He pled guilty for her and bargained with the Crowns attorney. She got 40 hrs community service and no recorded charges unless she had any further altercations within the next 12 months. This was her only brush with the law in her life.
There would have really been no point in ruining her life over two glasses of wine. If she weighed in at 200 pounds she would not have blown over the limit.
The sad thing is, that repeat offenders often use this method. And that isn't the fault of the law.. it's the fault of the judges.   Smiley





*RIDE= Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere. ( Police checkpoints)      



Still, all that hassle because she just had to have an alcoholic drink when she knew she was going to be driving.

Matt




You make a good point. Only a few years ago this was acceptable behavior.  Wink
 

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Reply #18 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:48pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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[/quote]There are so many technicalities that you can get off on its ridiculous.  For example, the officer in most states has to have an intital cause to stop you, in other words you have to break a traffic law.  We once had a guy get off scott free because the officer listed the initial cause to stop him as illegal lighting, because he was driving with his fog lights on.  Well if you scrutinize the law, fog lights are legal, so the initial cause was tossed out, and the DUI, even though he blew a .18!  Even though he was guilty of driving drunk, he got off because the officer didn't have probable cause to stop him. [/quote]

This is possibly what I'm looking into too.  The police officer said he pulled me over because I had my highbeams on.  Well we ever passed the officer.  He came up behind me and through his lights on.  I may have case but have yet to see the final report.  I'll run it by an attorney and see.  I'm just worried about the costs because I am unemployed.  So far I do have $2000 saved up and can mybe get $3000 by the time this starts rolling, but it's something to look into. It's all a waiting game.  I would like nothing more than to avoid jail time and have it go on my record. The jail time might be the easiest we'll see.  I'll be peading guilty and I'll be getting a chemical dependancy test done one my own that I can present to the judge showing that I'm taking this seriously and that I'm taking the initiative to make this right.

MIKE
 

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Reply #19 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 8:26pm

olderndirt   Offline
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Believe Canada considers this a felony rather than a misdemeanor and, if it's revealed at a border crossing check, you won't be allowed into the country.
 

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Reply #20 - Feb 19th, 2010 at 1:14am

Northwest 102   Offline
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Yeah that's what we we're talking about tonight too that having a DUI on your record excludes you from going to Canada.  However I don't know if it affects you're whole life or if after a few years they overlook it and let you in.  This part I do not know.

MIKE
 

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Reply #21 - Feb 19th, 2010 at 3:29am

expat   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:36pm:
expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 6:47pm:
Steve M wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 5:56pm:
expat wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 4:22am:
Steve M wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
Get a good lawyer. Bargain. Sometimes you can plead guilty or no contest, and end up with no record.



I love US justice. A positive breath test in Europe is as good as convicted, the court is a formality that confirms your ban and fine Grin

Matt




The same applies to parts of Canada. It is really a good system for ONE time offenders. The blood alchohol levels for conviction have gotten lowered to the point of ridiculous. My girl had an afternoon birthday get together with friends where she had two glasses of wine in two hours. driving home she ran across a RIDE* checkpoint and was arrested for impaired driving. She only weighs 100 pounds. If convicted she would loose her job. I convinced her to get a lawyer, not the 200$ lawyer, but the 900$ lawyer. He pled guilty for her and bargained with the Crowns attorney. She got 40 hrs community service and no recorded charges unless she had any further altercations within the next 12 months. This was her only brush with the law in her life.
There would have really been no point in ruining her life over two glasses of wine. If she weighed in at 200 pounds she would not have blown over the limit.
The sad thing is, that repeat offenders often use this method. And that isn't the fault of the law.. it's the fault of the judges.   Smiley





*RIDE= Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere. ( Police checkpoints)      



Still, all that hassle because she just had to have an alcoholic drink when she knew she was going to be driving.

Matt




You make a good point. Only a few years ago this was acceptable behavior.  Wink



Funny you should mention that. In the UK 25 years ago, drink driving went something like this;

Drink driving, bummer, the "§$%& must have been waiting for you. Unlucky mate.

Today, you complete "§$%&(/'#, you got what you deserve.

How times change.

Matt
 

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Reply #22 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 10:26pm

olderndirt   Offline
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Northwest 102 wrote on Feb 19th, 2010 at 1:14am:
I don't know if it affects you're whole life
Take it from one who knows, it will eventually be expunged from your driving record.  Individual states will have different requirements.
 

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Reply #23 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 6:15pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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I think it's 10 years in Minnsota then before I'm allowed in Canada.  Or a I wrong and it's only that a felony DUI arrest keeps you out of Canada?

A buddy text me yesterday and he said he was talking to his lawyer friend about my case and he said when I go for my hearing ask for the DA and that he's probably got a ton of stuff to do and will be more than happy to settle it and that .14 really isn't that bad.  Beit that Minnesota's legal limit is .08 I hope .14 isn't very bad...

MIKE
 

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Reply #24 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 7:41pm

skoker   Offline
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Go to Russia, they have a 5 DUI minimum to get into the air force! Grin
 


...
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Reply #25 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 8:44pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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It would take that for me to get inside one of their planes except for maybe the Mig 29.
 

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Reply #26 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 9:29pm

olderndirt   Offline
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Northwest 102 wrote on Feb 21st, 2010 at 6:15pm:
only a felony DUI arrest keeps you out of Canada?
Canada is the country which considers DUI a felony but when it's no longer on your US record - keep a straight face  Smiley.
 

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Reply #27 - Mar 3rd, 2010 at 9:39pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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I think 10 years and you can get it expunged. I may look into that.  Insurance it's 3 years however I don't know about aviation insurance.  I don't really want to fly for the airlines but I would like to fly King Airs and other small turboprops in the future for charter or cargo companies.

MIKE
 

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Reply #28 - Mar 5th, 2010 at 10:48am

beaky   Offline
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Northwest 102 wrote on Mar 3rd, 2010 at 9:39pm:
I think 10 years and you can get it expunged. I may look into that.  Insurance it's 3 years however I don't know about aviation insurance.  I don't really want to fly for the airlines but I would like to fly King Airs and other small turboprops in the future for charter or cargo companies.


Just remember, the charge may be expunged, but that does not mean that   there is not still a  record, somewhere, that you were stopped and given a breathalyzer or other DUI test.

If the question is "have you ever been pulled over on a DUI?" DO NOT LIE, even if you were told the whole thing is forgotten and you are in the clear.


 

...
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Reply #29 - Mar 6th, 2010 at 11:06am

Ivan   Offline
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For holland its the following:
You do the roadside test. this one has three outcomes... OK, not OK but no second test and not OK with second test.

In the 2nd case you get a fine and have to wait a few hours before driving again...

The second test is done at the police station with a more advanced test machine.
They do record the ones that let you end up at the police station, if you have too much listed or an absurd amount your driving license is temporarily revoked.

Now the juridical stuff starts if you were caught too often or the judge decides that 'the big one' was too much... And then all hell breaks loose with psychical tests and the whole lot
 

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Reply #30 - Mar 7th, 2010 at 3:40pm

Northwest 102   Offline
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I'm still playing the waiting game here. In 5 more days it will be a month since I was pulled over.  So far nothing has come in the mail yet. I've gotten used to being sober cab once again and it's nice to see the bank account rise instead of fall.

I do very much want this to be over ASAP and get this weight off my shoulders. I'm trying like hell to get a good job here before everything starts so I can start putting some money away.  Unemployment is enough but I would really like to be working too.  Job market seems to be improving! More opportunities for supervisors!  We'll see.  I checked my license status with the DMV earlier today and it says I'm still valid.  I almost want to lose it ASAP so I can get it back ASAP and not let this drag into the summer months.
 

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Reply #31 - Mar 14th, 2010 at 11:42pm

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olderndirt wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Good advice.  Most states have a program for first offenders where, if you comply with all the court's requirements, after five years the charge will be removed from your record.  This would then no longer require reporting it to either the FAA or a future employer. 


This is not entirely true. Some positions, specifically law enforcement, military, and other government and/or private positions that may require a gov't security clearance do not have the "if the record is juvenile, expunged, etc. do not check yes." 

These entities have access to and will check all records relating to you, even things the judge says "do not exist" anymore.
 
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