Simviation Forum - Concorde crash trial opens

Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 10:29am

Meck Offline
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I bet it would still fly if that one thing never happend... Embarrassed

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Reply #1 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 12:58pm

machineman9 Offline
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Cost of maintenance and all that was still quite high for Concorde even if it didn't crash.

I don't quite see why it has taken 10 years to get to this stage where the witnesses will have probably forgotten most of the key details anyway.

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Reply #2 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:16pm

beaky Offline
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Meck wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 10:29am:

I bet it would still fly if that one thing never happend... Embarrassed

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Well, there probably wouldn't be any in regular service at this point, but perhaps a few would still be flying displays or special charters.
It's very sad, aside from the real human tragedy of that crash. Cry

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Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:17pm

OVERLORD_CHRIS Offline
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Maybe it's just the military, but they do visual sweeps of the runway prior to certain things taking off, and this should have been one of those times that the Air field Manager went out and did a visual sweep before the Concord with it's Vacuum like intakes even got on the runway. Then the debris would have been spotted prior to the Concords take off.

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Reply #4 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:33pm

expat Offline
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:17pm:

Maybe it's just the military, but they do visual sweeps of the runway prior to certain things taking off, and this should have been one of those times that the Air field Manager went out and did a visual sweep before the Concord with it's Vacuum like intakes even got on the runway. Then the debris would have been spotted prior to the Concords take off.

That's if you believe that this small piece of metal was the reason for the crash (I don't) or if you believe the UK investigation (it was a joint enquiry with the "home team" having the final word) that the night before a the main gear was serviced a very important spacer was missing that held the wheels apart and in place. One was found by the British team still on the shelf and one was found missing from the left gear. Now you can believe that a bit of metal cut the tyre or as the British investigator pointed out, the gear shook it self to death like a shopping trolley wheel. Some other minor details like the aircraft was 2 tons over weight, took off with the wind (buried in the report but considered not important) and that the flight engineer shut down a second engine 20kts below the minimum safe handling speed without the captains authority (on the voice recorder and in the report but not considered important by the French investigators)...........Did I mention that Air France was about to be privatised at the time of the accident.

Matt

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Reply #5 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 4:51pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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expat wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:33pm:

OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 1:17pm:

Maybe it's just the military, but they do visual sweeps of the runway prior to certain things taking off, and this should have been one of those times that the Air field Manager went out and did a visual sweep before the Concord with it's Vacuum like intakes even got on the runway. Then the debris would have been spotted prior to the Concords take off.

That's if you believe that this small piece of metal was the reason for the crash (I don't) or if you believe the UK investigation (it was a joint enquiry with the "home team" having the final word) that the night before a the main gear was serviced a very important spacer was missing that held the wheels apart and in place. One was found by the British team still on the shelf and one was found missing from the left gear. Now you can believe that a bit of metal cut the tyre or as the British investigator pointed out, the gear shook it self to death like a shopping trolley wheel. Some other minor details like the aircraft was 2 tons over weight, took off with the wind (buried in the report but considered not important) and that the flight engineer shut down a second engine 20kts below the minimum safe handling speed without the captains authority (on the voice recorder and in the report but not considered important by the French investigators)...........Did I mention that Air France was about to be privatised at the time of the accident.

Matt

CRM disaster. Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in Air France, does it?

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Reply #6 - Feb 2^nd, 2010 at 10:05pm

BSW727 Offline
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You can say that again. There were so many things wrong with this flight that it should have never left the gate.

How could they have possibly approved an overweight takeoff is beyond me. Shutting down an engine 20KIAS below MCA? Does anyone know if that engine was still produciing any thrust before being shutdown?

Sounds like this was a flight waiting for a disaster to happen.

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Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2010 at 12:45am

SaultFresh Offline
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Woodbridge, Ontario

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I honestly believe that Air France is only in business because it's the flagship carrier of France. In the last decade, they have suffered 3 accidents/incidents, a feat only 5 other airlines have been able to match in that time. Along with that, Air France has managed to wipe 341 people from the Earth, which, in the last ten years, is the second most amount of casualties by a single airline, second only to American Airlines who racked up 6 accidents in that time and a fatality rate of 422 people, 156 being from September 11th, which doesn't really count as a pilot error, or bad weather, or the norm of an aviation accident, in my books.

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Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2010 at 1:10am

ViperPilot Offline
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Sounds like the prosecutors are looking for a scapegoat. Maybe they should be asking Air France some tough questions:

1) Why were the spacers missing from the LH Landing Gear
Beam?

2) Why was AF 4590 allowed to depart 12,000# overweight?

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Reply #9 - Feb 3^rd, 2010 at 6:47pm

OVERLORD_CHRIS Offline
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WOW, that is a lot of stuff in favor of Air France being 99% at blame.

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