Simviation Forum - Invisible Russian

Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:17am

ozzy72 Offline
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Well it has finally flown!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8486812.stm

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #1 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:34am

expat Offline
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The Russian do have a love affair with HUGE intakes on fighter aircraft....not exactly stealthy Huh

I myself love the term "all-weather capability". It is banded about by just about every aircraft maker in the world and used by the military to justify buying a new product almost as a standard one liner. All-weather capability used in connection with aircraft................that is like describing my as an "all round sportsman" Grin

Matt (all round Smiley

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Reply #2 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 11:52am

Rich H Offline
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What model is it? Reminds me of the Su-47.

"Politics" is made up of two words, "Poli", which is Greek for "many", and "tics", which are blood sucking insects. - Gore Vidal

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Reply #3 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 12:41pm

SeanTK Ex Member

Very interesting!

Looks like a pancaked Su-27! You can definitely tell that it is a Sukhoi design.

Rich, the article says that right now it is called the T-50. I don't know if that designation is the official one though, or if it will change to Su-50.

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Reply #4 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 1:16pm

C Offline
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Is anyone missing some pieces of aeroplane in the USA. Namely the rear end of a YF-23, the major proportion of an F-22 and half an F-35! Grin

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Reply #5 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:13pm

SeanTK Ex Member

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

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Reply #6 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:17pm

specter177 Offline
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And congress still thinks it's a good idea to quit making F-22s? I just hope Lockheed doesn't destroy the tooling. That looks like a cross between the YF-23 and SU-27.

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Reply #7 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:32pm

C Offline
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Quote:

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

I doubt anyone is being serious with direct comparisons... Wink

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Reply #8 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:53pm

expat Offline
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specter177 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

And congress still thinks it's a good idea to quit making F-22s? I just hope Lockheed doesn't destroy the tooling..

Would not be the first time, still................."no we can't start the line up, but what we can do is start on the development of the F-23A and it will only cost......."

Matt

PETA People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #9 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:34pm

ShaneG Offline
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So much for Sukhoi's run of beautiful, graceful looking planes. Sad

That thing looks like the Frankenstein of fighters. Tongue

♪♫♪‼

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Reply #10 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 4:16pm

C Offline
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ShaneG wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:34pm:

So much for Sukhoi's run of beautiful, graceful looking planes. Sad

I think that ended with the Su-27 family - a role reversal considering the comparatively curvy Mig-29 (after their functional 21, 25, 23 & 27).

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Reply #11 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 4:24pm

skoker Offline
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I still see it...

Grin

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Reply #12 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 4:28pm

SeanTK Ex Member

The more I look at it, the more I like it. I wasn't quite sure how to react to it at first, but it does look pretty cool in my opinion.

Oh, and that comparison comment I brought up was just a preemptive observation not directed with ill intent at anybody. I've been on so many forums where anything Russian is hated with a passion, so I'm always on guard and ready to jump when stuff like this comes up. Grin

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Reply #13 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 4:45pm

C Offline
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Quote:

The more I look at it, the more I like it. I wasn't quite sure how to react to it at first, but it does look pretty cool in my opinion.

Oh, and that comparison comment I brought up was just a preemptive observation not directed with ill intent at anybody. I've been on so many forums where anything Russian is hated with a passion, so I'm always on guard and ready to jump when stuff like this comes up. Grin

Russian kit's great. As long as it's kept at a distance and not sold to people that James Bond "deals with". Grin

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Reply #14 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 8:33pm

SeanTK Ex Member

I can't confirm this yet from multiple sources, but the current word is that the NATO reporting name is or will be: "Firefox".

If true, that's just awesome. Grin

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Reply #15 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 10:22pm

NNNG Ex Member

Quote:

The Russian do have a love affair with HUGE intakes on fighter aircraft....not exactly stealthy

F-22, YF-23 & F-35 have huge intakes at the front. What makes the intakes stealthy is mainly because they block view of the engines from all angles, and also because the intakes are fixed.

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Reply #16 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 3:36am

C Offline
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Quote:

The Russian do have a love affair with HUGE intakes on fighter aircraft....not exactly stealthy

F-22, YF-23 & F-35 have huge intakes at the front. What makes the intakes stealthy is mainly because they block view of the engines from all angles, and also because the intakes are fixed.

Indeed, and if you want smaller intakes, then you'd be paying a performance penalty.

Simplistically, big powerful engine = big intake!

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Reply #17 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 8:18am

expat Offline
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expat wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:53pm:

specter177 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

And congress still thinks it's a good idea to quit making F-22s? I just hope Lockheed doesn't destroy the tooling..

Would not be the first time, still................."no we can't start the line up, but what we can do is start on the development of the F-23A and it will only cost......."

Matt

Did I mention...........$4 billion over 4 years for development of a new long-range strategic bomber.

Matt

PETA People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #18 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:18pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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Quote:

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

Russians copying US designs? Nope, no way, never happened, you're pulling stuff out of your rear end Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-4

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #19 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:51pm

C Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

Russians copying US designs? Nope, no way, never happened, you're pulling stuff out of your rear end Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-4

That's not a copy. It was a licence built version of the B-29...

...only they forgot the licence. Grin

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Reply #20 - Jan 31^st, 2010 at 12:51pm

OVERLORD_CHRIS Offline
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specter177 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

And congress still thinks it's a good idea to quit making F-22s? I just hope Lockheed doesn't destroy the tooling. That looks like a cross between the YF-23 and SU-27.

Ahh You beat me to it!, that's was how I described it to my boss last night when I showed it to him at work.

If PAK FA stands for: Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi - Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces- Why does every one keep naming the plane PAK FA? They said it was the T-50 until Sukhoi gives it its Su designator, and yet every time I read post about it, out side of here, they saying "The new Russian PAK FA flown today or what ever"

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Reply #21 - Jan 31^st, 2010 at 6:48pm

ShaneG Offline
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote on Jan 31^st, 2010 at 12:51pm:

If PAK FA stands for: Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi ... Why does every one keep naming the plane PAK FA?

Because it just rolls off the tongue so easily. Wink

♪♫♪‼

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Reply #22 - Jan 31^st, 2010 at 6:54pm

C Offline
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote on Jan 31^st, 2010 at 12:51pm:

If PAK FA stands for: Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi - Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces- Why does every one keep naming the plane PAK FA? They said it was the T-50 until Sukhoi gives it its Su designator, and yet every time I read post about it, out side of here, they saying "The new Russian PAK FA flown today or what ever"

Maybe they think it makes them sound cleverer, and that someone will consequently have to ask them!

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Reply #23 - Jan 31^st, 2010 at 8:00pm

machineman9 Offline
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Quote:

The Russian do have a love affair with HUGE intakes on fighter aircraft....not exactly stealthy

F-22, YF-23 & F-35 have huge intakes at the front. What makes the intakes stealthy is mainly because they block view of the engines from all angles, and also because the intakes are fixed.

Theres a video of the F22 somewhere where the intake design is shown. They couldn't show you the engine from the front simply because the intakes bent around such corners that it was impossible for them to get the camera in to show you.

The T-50 isn't very pretty, but I've come to just accept that Russian aircraft seem to 'do the job' rather than look pretty. If it works, it works. Why complicate things?

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Reply #24 - Jan 31^st, 2010 at 8:11pm

DaveSims Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

Quote:

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

Russians copying US designs? Nope, no way, never happened, you're pulling stuff out of your rear end Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-4

I still think the Tu-160 and the B-1 are also way too similar to be sheer coincidence.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #25 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 2:10am

expat Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Jan 31^st, 2010 at 8:11pm:

The Ruptured Duck wrote on Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

Quote:

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

Russians copying US designs? Nope, no way, never happened, you're pulling stuff out of your rear end Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-4

I still think the Tu-160 and the B-1 are also way too similar to be sheer coincidence.

Maybe, but when you are both designing an aircraft to do pretty much the same thing, there will always be similarities and even crossover points to a certain extent. It can be seen in US and Russian aircraft as much as in the designs of US contractors bidding for the same contract. Certain shapes and design features are know world wide to do a certain things at a certain speeds, hight, payload, endurance etc there are bound to be similarities.

Matt

PETA People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #26 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 12:16pm

machineman9 Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Jan 30^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

Quote:

Well, there are only so many ways to make an effective stealth fighter, so it's a given that some aspects are going to look similar among aircraft. Obviously many people are going to jump on the "Russians are copying us again" thing which has been popular to do since the start of the Cold War.
Maybe I am just more in tune with some aspects of Russian/Ukranian aircraft design, but I can see clear, original elements of Sukhoi craftsmanship in this airplane. You can really see the Su-27 series lineage here. I hope it does well.

Russians copying US designs? Nope, no way, never happened, you're pulling stuff out of your rear end Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-4

The Buran was an original design too Grin

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