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Pattern right of way (Read 481 times)
Jan 10th, 2010 at 5:24pm

C170b   Offline
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Take this scenario: An aircraft is flying a standard left hand traffic pattern and is turning base when the pilot spots another aircraft flying a straight in GPS approach and is on a colision course with him. Who has the right of way and who has to go around?
 

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Reply #1 - Jan 10th, 2010 at 5:30pm

DaveSims   Offline
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Who ever is at a lower altitude usually is the rule.  Plus I believe IFR over VFR, but I don't know that for sure.  I usually always yield to other aircraft, out of courtesy, and because even if I'm right, everyone loses in a mid-air.
 
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Reply #2 - Jan 10th, 2010 at 7:16pm

beaky   Offline
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C170b wrote on Jan 10th, 2010 at 5:24pm:
Take this scenario: An aircraft is flying a standard left hand traffic pattern and is turning base when the pilot spots another aircraft flying a straight in GPS approach and is on a colision course with him. Who has the right of way and who has to go around?


That's easy. The guy on base has to go around, because the guy flying the GPS approach not only hasn't bothered to announce on the CTAF, he's not looking for traffic. And he's flying a Cirrus, which means if anyone hits him, he can just pull the parachute... what does he care?  Cheesy

More seriously... from the FAA handbook:

"General: When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right of way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.


"Landing:  When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right of way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or overtake that aircraft."


If a non-towered field is under VFR, there is no priority given to IFR flights ending with a visual approach at that airport... and even enroute, if an IFR flight encounters visual conditions at any point, for any period of time, that PIC is responsible for keeping a lookout, regardless of radar services. 

Here's a good example of how right-of-way works in general, in terms of the rules and common sense:


Let's say I'm flying a glider, no transponder, not talking to ATC on my handheld, just outside the southern edge of the KEWR Class B (within the Mode C veil but exempt from transponder rules because the glider has no electrics). There are clouds, but I am maintaining VFR.  I'm maneuvering at about 3,000 MSL or so. An airliner is descending towards KEWR from the south. They are under IFR, but they are going in and out of clouds. Should they get close to me, not only should they be looking for me, but if I remain in their way, by law they must maneuver to avoid me, because all powered aircraft are considered more maneuverable than gliders.
But I take no comfort in the rules... a very thorough scan is important over there, and if I see a heavy on one of those low approaches, I will enter a steep turn to "show my belly" and make it easier for them to spot me. It's also wise not to hang around between clouds, should you manage to climb beyond cloud base... that's a good way to wind up decorating the nose of an airliner.
 

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Reply #3 - Jan 10th, 2010 at 9:04pm

C170b   Offline
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Thank you very much for the insight on my question. Just to clarify both aircraft had been transmitting correctly on the UNICOM.
Thanks again,
C170B
 

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Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2010 at 10:05pm

beaky   Offline
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C170b wrote on Jan 10th, 2010 at 9:04pm:
Just to clarify both aircraft had been transmitting correctly on the UNICOM.

I figured they had, in your scenario... which raises an important point: the radio does not keep you safe, ultimately.
 

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Reply #5 - Jan 10th, 2010 at 10:53pm

C170b   Offline
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Quote:
I figured they had, in your scenario... which raises an important point: the radio does not keep you safe, ultimately.

That's why they call it VFR. Always keep a lookout for traffic.
 

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Reply #6 - Jan 12th, 2010 at 12:08am

beaky   Offline
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C170b wrote on Jan 10th, 2010 at 10:53pm:
Quote:
I figured they had, in your scenario... which raises an important point: the radio does not keep you safe, ultimately.

That's why they call it VFR. Always keep a lookout for traffic.

And don't forget that "VMC" implies the same thing, even if you have not closed your IFR plan yet.  Wink
 

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Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2010 at 11:19am

Al_Fallujah   Ex Member

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I was almost in that exact situation. On the downwind, looking left to make my turn to base, a twin engine Aztec on a GPS approach was on a straight in. I knew he was coming in, as he had been polite enough to call in at 10 miles and 4 miles out.

He hollered he was a little over a mile out, and I saw him. I just announce I would extend my downwind leg, and followed him in. He was faster, so I knew it would not take him long.

My concern regarding your answer, Rottydaddy, was the going around part.  You are already on base leg, descending and slowing. If you go around, you will have to cross over, under, or (gulp) infront of the straight in apporaching aircraft? You have to gun the engine, and climb. There is still a good risk for collision. Turn back to downwind may be an option, depending on the size of the pattern, but if its smaller, as it usually is in a 172..?
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2010 at 6:23pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
I was almost in that exact situation. On the downwind, looking left to make my turn to base, a twin engine Aztec on a GPS approach was on a straight in. I knew he was coming in, as he had been polite enough to call in at 10 miles and 4 miles out.

He hollered he was a little over a mile out, and I saw him. I just announce I would extend my downwind leg, and followed him in. He was faster, so I knew it would not take him long.

My concern regarding your answer, Rottydaddy, was the going around part.  You are already on base leg, descending and slowing. If you go around, you will have to cross over, under, or (gulp) infront of the straight in apporaching aircraft? You have to gun the engine, and climb. There is still a good risk for collision. Turn back to downwind may be an option, depending on the size of the pattern, but if its smaller, as it usually is in a 172..?


Well... if the choices are A) go around (to the upwind leg) or B) risk trying to occupy the same space as another airplane... I'll take A.  Grin

Pilots should always be prepared to go around at any point in an approach, and they should know how to do so without panicking or forgetting to keep an eye on other traffic.
So... you're smaller, and slower... this is actually very good. Slower means you will have more time to get out of the way, and smaller means you are a smaller target to hit.

Turning back (and then climbing)to downwind from base is a really bad idea, generally... especially if there is someone behind you on downwind, or entering downwind. Not only that, but if you are doing so because of traffic on final, you will have to turn straight towards them, whereas if you stay more or less on your base leg heading and climb, to take up the upwind leg at TPA and on the other side of the runway, the risk of collision with anyone else anywhere in the pattern is minimized.

If you find yourself totally boxed in, with traffic on final, on downwind, and on upwind, you can always fly the base heading and climb out of the pattern altogether, staying below TPA. But the upwind leg is rarely used, except by traffic aborting approaches, so it's unlikely you'd find someone in your way if you head there after aborting on the base leg.
 

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Reply #9 - Jan 23rd, 2010 at 3:43pm

Al_Fallujah   Ex Member

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I am learning at an uncontrolled airport. I see the upwind leg used a lot there actually.

Its a single strip. Someone who wanted to come in straight from one direction, gets on the local freq and discovers that the pattern is being used the other direction, or the wind changed since their flight planning. They will take the upwind, and usually cross over at mid-field.

I agree with your above statement tho. Turning back to downwind just sounds bad. In my case, I did not have to deal with it. I was still on downwind.
 
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