Simviation Forum - Textures question

Dec 17^th, 2009 at 10:49pm

patchz Offline
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What causes DXT3 files to degrade, such as picking up some different color pixels here and there? The more times I open the file to work on it, the worse it gets.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #1 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 2:29am

garryrussell Offline
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That's a by product (mainly pink orgreen tiniting) of the compression and gets more noticable if a file is uncompressed and recrompressed several times.

I never use DXT3 now for the main airframe, I just leave them as 32 888-8.

Unless you have no choice, never uncompress the DXT3 but go back to uncompressed versions, or if not one of your originals make the first uncompressed version the master.

Garry

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Reply #2 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 2:49am

Hagar Offline
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For what it's worth my advice is similar to Garry's. Always work from a master texture saved in the native format of your graphics editor. This will remain in the best possible quality & preserve layers so you can go back & change it whenever you wish. Not only does it save a lot of work but it prevents loss of quality every time you decompress/compress an image in a compressed format, whether this is an Extended BMP texture or a screenshot in JPEG format.

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Reply #3 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 4:27pm

patchz Offline
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Thank you both.

I had just figured out on my last paint that 32-888 gave better quality than DXT3. But I'm not exactly sure how to do what you are saying. Maybe I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, but when I first started, I read that the best way to save the file from the editor was to just close the editor. I've learned to save a copy as a .psd so I can keep the layers in case I need to change something. But I have not figured out a way to save what I'm working on back to DXTBmp without just saving the file sent to editor. So I having to copy and paste whatever layer I need from the .psd and try to line it up as best I can. There has got to be an easier way, I just can't figure it out. There is sooooo much I don't know about using DXTBmp.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #4 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 4:53pm

Hagar Offline
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patchz wrote on Dec 18^th, 2009 at 4:27pm:

Thank you both.

I had just figured out on my last paint that 32-888 gave better quality than DXT3. But I'm not exactly sure how to do what you are saying. Maybe I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, but when I first started, I read that the best way to save the file from the editor was to just close the editor. I've learned to save a copy as a .psd so I can keep the layers in case I need to change something. But I have not figured out a way to save what I'm working on back to DXTBmp without just saving the file sent to editor. So I having to copy and paste whatever layer I need from the .psd and try to line it up as best I can. There has got to be an easier way, I just can't figure it out. There is sooooo much I don't know about using DXTBmp.

I believe DXTBmp will open most image formats including PSD. Not sure how it would handle layers. Alternatively you could also save your edited master texture as a standard Windows BMP or other suitable format. Then open it in DXTBmp for conversion to Extended format. There's no need to do it all "live". Save as you go.

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Reply #5 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 5:59pm

garryrussell Offline
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I always save my PSD as a 24 bmp and then call that in to DXTBMP and resave as an Extended 888-8.....or if I want a DXT3 but the DXT3 does lose detail especially if there is detail in the alpha as it compresses.

Garry

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Reply #6 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 6:13pm

garryrussell Offline
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I just remebered this which giht help explain things.

It was from experiments when I was painting for the HS.748 project.

The inset on the right is the tail alone in DXT3....note the blotchy alpha against the smooth higher res 32 888 of the left image.

If it is a bold, distinct image you will get away with the dxt3 compression. Gradient tints and fine detail could be a problem as the pic shows. Cry

Garry

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Reply #7 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 8:08pm

patchz Offline
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Quote:

I believe DXTBmp will open most image formats including PSD. Not sure how it would handle layers. Alternatively you could also save your edited master texture as a standard Windows BMP or other suitable format. Then open it in DXTBmp for conversion to Extended format. There's no need to do it all "live". Save as you go.

I tried that. When I sent to editor, PSP locked up. Don't know what's going on there. Undecided

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #8 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 8:10pm

patchz Offline
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Quote:

I just remebered this which giht help explain things.

It was from experiments when I was painting for the HS.748 project.

The inset on the right is the tail alone in DXT3....note the blotchy alpha against the smooth higher res 32 888 of the left image.

If it is a bold, distinct image you will get away with the dxt3 compression. Gradient tints and fine detail could be a problem as the pic shows.

Thanks. I had pretty much decided to use 32 888 from now on.
I guess it's like Henny Youngman said, "practice, practice, practice. Grin

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #9 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 8:20pm

Hagar Offline
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patchz wrote on Dec 18^th, 2009 at 8:08pm:

Quote:

I believe DXTBmp will open most image formats including PSD. Not sure how it would handle layers. Alternatively you could also save your edited master texture as a standard Windows BMP or other suitable format. Then open it in DXTBmp for conversion to Extended format. There's no need to do it all "live". Save as you go.

I tried that. When I sent to editor, PSP locked up. Don't know what's going on there. Undecided

Not sure what you mean. What did you send to editor? You only need to do this once when converting the texture for the first time to create your master texture.

Once that's done you can do all your editing in PSP from your original master texture.
When you've finished editing save it in PSD format but also Save As in BMP format.
Open the BMP in DXTBmp & save in the desired FS texture format with the appropriate file name.

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Reply #10 - Dec 18^th, 2009 at 11:24pm

patchz Offline
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Oops! Ok, I think I get it now. I tried opening a .psd and then sending that to editor to work on. Anyway, I've been trying to do something for a friend that is waaaay over my head and I'm so confused right now I would not touch a paint project. Thanks for the help guys.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #11 - Dec 19^th, 2009 at 4:07am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

I tried opening a .psd and then sending that to editor to work on.

I'm sure you can see that's an unnecessary process as PSP will open the image direct.

You must change your mindset & think of DXTBmp as a simple texture converter. Once an FS compressed texture has been converted & saved in a standard image format there is no need to use DXTBmp again until you wish to convert it back to an Extended format for use in FS. If you're working with a paint kit with the textures already in PSD or standard 24 bit BMP format the first step will not be necessary. Depending on the Extended format you're using you will probably need to create or import an Alpha channel before saving the textures.

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Reply #12 - Dec 19^th, 2009 at 6:14am

garryrussell Offline
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Just as Hagar says

DXT.BMP is an image converter not an editor Wink

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