Simviation Forum - quick VFR altitudes question

Dec 7^th, 2009 at 1:45pm

snippyfsxer Offline
Colonel

Posts: 404

I keep reading that in VFR flight, if your heading is 180-359, you would fly at an even thousand (6500,8500) and if between 0 and 179, at a odd thousand (5500). Is this an advisory or is it a RULE? To be true to real life form in the sim, I should be changing altitudes every time I change from east to west? And what if, in the RW I'm just out doing doughnuts in the sky?

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Reply #1 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:14pm

C Offline
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Earth

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If you're VFR, you could, if you so wished, fly at any level you want... However, a lot of people use the IFR "quadrantal" rule used outside controlled airspace, even when flying VFR.

To quickly summarise the quatrantal rule, track 000 to 089, odd levels (eg 7000ft), 090 to 179, odds +500 (eg 7500ft), 180 to 269, evens (eg 8000), 270 to 359, evens +500 (eg 8500ft). In europe this applies all the way up to FL195 above transition alt (which unlike the US 18000ft is variable dependant on location).

In CAS, the rule is as you describe, "semicircular", although using odd levels (eg FL210) from 000 to 179, and evens (eg FL220) from 180 to 359.

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Reply #2 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:28pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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If you're going to be tracking the same course for any length of time, it's a good rule to use, but not required.

Also remember that it doesn't even start, until 3000agl.

For a short VFR flight.. a totally meaningless altitude is good practice.. i.e. 4250msl .. because EVERYone else on long legs will be at the other altitudes Cheesy

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Reply #3 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:33pm

C Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:28pm:

For a short VFR flight.. a totally meaningless altitude is good practice.. i.e. 4250msl .. because EVERYone else on long legs will be at the other altitudes Cheesy

And as some solo students and those less well practiced and confident PPLs may well be sticking like glue to exactly X000ft...

...and having 99% of their attention on the altimeter, not out the window...

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Reply #4 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 3:14pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Quote:

and having 99% of their attention on the altimeter, not out the window...

exACTLY

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Reply #5 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 5:16pm

olderndirt Offline
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C wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:33pm:

...and having 99% of their attention on the altimeter, not out the window...

or their new glass panel and/or gps

.

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #6 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 5:43pm

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 3:14pm:

Quote:

and having 99% of their attention on the altimeter, not out the window...

exACTLY

Ahhhhhh, the joys of IFR...

...(not - thankfully we do a bit more VFR flying than most tubes!)! Grin

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Reply #7 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:03pm

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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C wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 2:14pm:

If you're VFR, you could, if you so wished, fly at any level you want... However, a lot of people use the IFR "quadrantal" rule used outside controlled airspace, even when flying VFR.

To quickly summarise the quatrantal rule, track 000 to 089, odd levels (eg 7000ft), 090 to 179, odds +500 (eg 7500ft), 180 to 269, evens (eg 8000), 270 to 359, evens +500 (eg 8500ft). In europe this applies all the way up to FL195 above transition alt (which unlike the US 18000ft is variable dependant on location).

In CAS, the rule is as you describe, "semicircular", although using odd levels (eg FL210) from 000 to 179, and evens (eg FL220) from 180 to 359.

One point, at least in the US, both the VFR and IFR use the semicircular rule. The only difference is IFR are at odd or even levels (4000, 5000, 12000, etc.), and the VFR are on odd or even +500 (4500, 5500, 12500). This provides a little separation between VFR and IFR traffic.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #8 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:07pm

C Offline
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Earth

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DaveSims wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:03pm:

One point, at least in the US, both the VFR and IFR use the semicircular rule. The only difference is IFR are at odd or even levels (4000, 5000, 12000, etc.), and the VFR are on odd or even +500 (4500, 5500, 12500). This provides a little separation between VFR and IFR traffic.

I see. As our transition altitude is often as low as 3000ft, and IFR uses quadrantals outside of CAS, we're procluded from doing that. Sensible VFR pilots just use the appropriate IFR levels.

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Reply #9 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:42pm

snippyfsxer Offline
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Posts: 404

A semi-related question to the interaction between IFR and VFR, or perhaps not (but no use in opening up another thread in any case)...Lets say I'm flying VFR and I decide I want to do an ILS approach per the chart. Do I have to obtain an IFR clearance in mid-air or can I just enter the approach? I'm not talking Charles de Gaulle or something just your average old municipal airport. Do I just ask the controller for permission to fly the approach and then they grant it?

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Reply #10 - Dec 7^th, 2009 at 7:45pm

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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snippyfsxer wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:42pm:

A semi-related question to the interaction between IFR and VFR, or perhaps not (but no use in opening up another thread in any case)...Lets say I'm flying VFR and I decide I want to do an ILS approach per the chart. Do I have to obtain an IFR clearance in mid-air or can I just enter the approach? I'm not talking Charles de Gaulle or something just your average old municipal airport. Do I just ask the controller for permission to fly the approach and then they grant it?

You don't have to be IFR to fly the ILS. If the field is uncontrolled, you can do whatever you want basically. If the field has a tower, you can request it.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #11 - Dec 8^th, 2009 at 9:55am

olderndirt Offline
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Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA

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snippyfsxer wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 1:45pm:

I keep reading that in VFR flight, if your heading is 180-359, you would fly at an even thousand (6500,8500) and if between 0 and 179, at a odd thousand (5500). Is this an advisory or is it a RULE? To be true to real life form in the sim, I should be changing altitudes every time I change from east to west? And what if, in the RW I'm just out doing doughnuts in the sky?

This rule is probably a carryover from the old CAA days, before 'the Grand Canyon' in 1958. Back then the official line was that if it's covered by a rule, it's safe

.

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #12 - Dec 9^th, 2009 at 1:08am

-Crossfire- Offline
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Northern Canada

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DaveSims wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 7:45pm:

snippyfsxer wrote on Dec 7^th, 2009 at 6:42pm:

A semi-related question to the interaction between IFR and VFR, or perhaps not (but no use in opening up another thread in any case)...Lets say I'm flying VFR and I decide I want to do an ILS approach per the chart. Do I have to obtain an IFR clearance in mid-air or can I just enter the approach? I'm not talking Charles de Gaulle or something just your average old municipal airport. Do I just ask the controller for permission to fly the approach and then they grant it?

You don't have to be IFR to fly the ILS. If the field is uncontrolled, you can do whatever you want basically. If the field has a tower, you can request it.

At a controlled airport, you ask to do a "simulated" approach. If they approve it, they will tell you to remain VFR at all times.

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