I have been flying for some time now, i usual flies long haul heavys like 747-400, A340 and A380. I have learned to do a standard ILS landing with good results.

The thing is that i am keen to learn to land this queens on airports that have a lack for the ILS systems. Earlier when i couldn´t perform a ILS approach i just handflew the aircraft. The problem here is the angel of the glideslope and the align with the runway. Sometimes way to high and some times way to low.

I wonder if you guys have any advice how you make a perfect landing on a non ILS runway. For example Princess Juliana Airport aka. St Maarten. 

So i should maintain aprox between 2000 and 3000ft (2500ft) just like on ILS and line up the aircraft with the HDG knobb? Check wich heading the runway have and then try to align the aircraft with the HDG knobb?

BSW727 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 7:40am:


The things with the runways moving upp and down you mean the visual runway or do you mean the systems with the course knob and the systems on the PFD?

BSW727 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 7:57am:


Thanks! I will test it

JBaymore wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 8:36am:


10/10..... ...!

Should be a "Sticky", with compulsory reading, at the head of all the "Flight Sim" Threads...... ...!

Paul...G-BPLF... ...!

The runway should be in the middle of your windshield. That said another way, point it where you want it to go. point it at the threshold and make sure the threshold stays in the middle of your view.

BUT Brett Henderson is absolutely correct. if you don't know how to land a 747, any survivable landing is pure chance. You should work your way up, learning skills.

Another 2 cents' worth:
There is no magic formula; it takes practice.
But two things are critical:airspeed and the sight picture.

Your airspeed should be appropriate, and stabilized well out on final, with the airplane configured for landing (gear and flaps).  Any airspeed and pitch angle that works well on an ILS approach will work fine on a visual approach... the airplane isn't doing anything differently.

As for the sight picture:  BSW727 and Fozzer are both right. Initially, you should "aim" for the spot where you want to "round out" or "flare", and as you reach that point, you should start focusing on the far end of the runway, not the target spot. This brings your peripheral vision more into play, allowing you to stay centered and know your height above the runway pretty intuitively.

The "trick" to aiming the airplane on final is very simple. It's the same rule that applies whenever you are moving through space, using your eyes to determine where you are going (driving, walking, whatever). Any object that remains stationary in your field of view is something that is directly in your path. Anything that is moving will not be in your way.
  So your target point on the runway should not move up, down, left or right. Depending on the plane, etc it might be in the middle of the windshield, it might be 2/3 up the windshield... if you are crabbing or slipping because of a crosswind, it might be out the side window!  Don't worry about pointing the nose at it... just keep it from moving in your field of view.

But as long as you do what you must to keep your intended spot stationary, that is where you will wind up. If it is moving down, you are too high and may overshoot. If it is moving up, you are too low, and may undershoot. Left and right are pretty easy to understand, too.

Again, this is no "magic bullet" or "plug in" thing... it takes practice. And if you are trying to learn this in a jet, you will have a much harder time of it. They are fast, very fussy about airspeeds, and they don't allow for much correction with powwer due to the spool-up time. Try something slower first.  If you can land a Piper Cub cleanly, you will have a much easier time doing a visual approach in a jet, because the basics- appropriate airspeed and sight picture- apply to all aircraft.

Once you try it in jets, you might try what I did: use the ILS in visual conditions, and look up now and then to see what the sight picture looks like. Also note your airspeed, etc. This may help with that particular airplane.

Skittles wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 1:00pm:


Your late arrival at this point in the discussion is not aided by your desperate apologies, Skittles...

All the important features regarding the Perfect Visual Landing procedures have already been discussed and settled upon, and everyone has now departed to the Pub for the rest of the evening.

If you hurry you may make it before Closing Time.

Paul... ... ... ...!

.... .... .... ...!

krusbullen wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 5:40am:
Actually still a work in progress but, from what I've read, there's a lot of info here to work with.  Practice, practice.  .

And when you're learning to juggle..  start with three, lights, soft. easy-to-grip balls..  NOT  three, hard, heavy, slippery balls 

Brett_Henderson wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 6:51am:


Actually, working with the the 747 before having a LOT of experience is more like learning to juggle with a running chainsaw, a lumberjack's axe, and a samurai katana.   

best,

...................john

When I figured out that I could just take half my ground speed and add a zero to get my target rate of descent, something they don't even point out to the noobie in the fs9 training lessons...I was able to concentrate on good landings instead of just landing.  Now, when I buy a new sim plane the first thing I do is make a chart of all the V-speeds and then go play test pilot, finding all the various speed/flap/throttle configurations so I'll not be left guessing on final.  Taking this methodical approach has helped me immensly;  I would suppose real pilots must do something similar

krusbullen, I'd strongly suggest that you set up an ILS approach to a well-equipped airport, and then save it say 15 miles out, as soon as you're cleared to land.

Then use it for practice, phasing out the ILS (and 'speed hold' if fitted) earlier and earlier until you can do the whole thing manually. And, of course, you can substitute any other kind of aeroplane, or try out new types, using the same saved flight.

One basic 'pilots' principle' about landing that can't be mentioned often enough - 'power for height, pitch for speed.' Meaning that if the rate of descent is too fast, you should add a touch of power, not haul the nose up - and conversely that if the aeroplane is below a sensible landing speed, you should trim the nose down.

Landing speeds don't need to get too complicated (in FS anyway ). Once in full landing configuration (gear and flaps down) 90-100 knots for props and 140 knots for jets is usually about right. Rate of descent should normally be 500-600 feet per minute for any sort of aeroplane. You'll generally find that being at say 2,500 feet about 8 miles out gives you about the right sort of initial descent gradient, with plenty of time to get everything organised in good time.

Also see if these help? The first one deals with an ILS approach in a jet, the second with a manual crosswind approach in a prop.

http://205.252.250.26/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=COF;action=display;num=1111322...

http://205.252.250.26/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=COF;action=display;num=1129643...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BOEING-737-OPERATIONS-MANUAL-3-VOLUMES-USED-SET_W...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BOEING-737-FLIGHT-CREW-OPS-AVIATION-MANUAL-VOL-1-...

You've been watching too much 007, Fozzer 

When I land:

1. 2 white and 2 red on the papi lights
2. Line up as  with the center line so its just slightly off center to the right

Thats it!

Quote:

6239.2hours since 2007