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Question:
How Do You Shift?
Pull for Upshift-Push for Downshift
Push for Upshift-Pull for Downshift
Left for Upshift- Right for Downshift
Right for Upshift-Left for Downshift
I leave it in D, and let it decide.
Never owned a Manu-matic.
« Created by:
ShaneG
on: Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 10:26am »
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How do you shift? (Read 1353 times)
Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 10:26am
ShaneG
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Interesting article about how manufactures do manu-matic transmissions shift directions.
http://beta.roadandtrack.com/column/to_push_or_pull_when_downshifting_that_is_th...
Since these have become rather common place around the world now, I thought it would be interesting to see how the different ways are divided up among us. I've owned a couple of different ones, but I still prefer a true manual. Nothing replaces the feel of pushing a clutch and feeling the snick of a gear sliding smoothly into place.
I prefer pull for upshift, and push for downshift.
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Reply #1 -
Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 11:46am
expat
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My 5 Series has Tip-Tronic, pull up, push down. I agree with you and the article. It is the natural way to go about it. Think about a manual gearbox. To get all gears you pull to go up. Pull first to second, pull third to forth. From second to third is a diagonal movement. As for forth to fifth, well we just chuck it up in the corner
. Also as you brake, you're pushed forward in the seat, so it's instinctive to push forward to downshift and the reverse when you accelerate. We have a VW Caddy at work that has push forward to change up. When you floor it and are pushed back in your seat and at the same time you have to push forward, it just does feel right.
Matt
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Reply #2 -
Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 1:10pm
eno
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Not very sophisticated these triptonics ........ Mercedes trucks had (not sure without checking whether they still have) electronic power shift (EPS) boxes, 16 gears and more fun than a fun thing, even though they required a clutch to start and when stopping.
Although they were sequential, for the most part, they would choose gear ratios that were appropriate for the conditions and weight of the vehicle. On approach to a roundabout or other hazard that required slowing withough stopping you would brake and then slap the stick sideways and the gear for keeping running would be chosen. If you had to stop then just depress the clutch and neutral would be chosen if you were stationary .... to pull off push the stick forward and release the clutch off you would go in the correct gear, after that it was all clutchless push for up a gear ...... pull for down.
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Reply #3 -
Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 4:23pm
Craig.
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paddle shift all the way now. These tiptronic though it has to be pull for up push for down. Its how its worked in the racing cars for years.
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Reply #4 -
Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 9:54pm
beaky
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Getting used to my rather stiff '90 Mustang gearbox... it and the clutch get moody sometimes. I have to stand on the clutch and get the rpms just right, or she will not shift happily, especially downshifting. I hate having to coast down a highway offramp because I can't get it down into 2nd gear... argghh!!
Needs tweaking, I guess (not in the budget right now)... it really has good and bad days; seems completely unrelated to clutch usage or anything like that. My car's other "trick" is to force me to go into 1st and just barely let out the clutch... sometimes more than once, before it will go into reverse. Clearly the priority with this vehicle is going forward, not backward.
But when it is having a good day, it's very workable, although fairly crude.
The trans on my much-missed '75 Fiat 124 Spider was hardly a work of art, but that thing was a joy to shift. Clutchless shifting was quite easy most of the time.
Only other manual-trans vehicle I've owned was a Subaru GL wagon... very well-done, but not exciting like the Fiat. That Fiat is still my personal benchmark for "what it should feel like to use a stickshift". And for handling, too, now that I think about it... sure, they were kinda crappy in many ways, but don't judge until you've driven one on a mountain road as fast as you dare.
Still, I think my biggest problem with the Stang is having driven an automatic for the previous 8 years.
I'm just glad I haven't accidentally tossed it into 3rd instead of 5th in a while... and I've finally figured out how to get going after stopping on a hill without using the parking brake!!
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Reply #5 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 1:11am
U4EA
Ex Member
I be lovin' my (conventional) 5-speed Blazer.....wouldn't be caught dead in a 4WD vehicle with an auto tranny.
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Reply #6 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 6:39am
ShaneG
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beaky wrote
on Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 9:54pm:
Getting used to my rather stiff '90 Mustang gearbox... it and the clutch get moody sometimes. I have to stand on the clutch and get the rpms just right, or she will not shift happily, especially downshifting. I hate having to coast down a highway offramp because I can't get it down into 2nd gear... argghh!!
Needs tweaking, I guess (not in the budget right now)... it really has good and bad days; seems completely unrelated to clutch usage or anything like that. My car's other "trick" is to force me to go into 1st and just barely let out the clutch... sometimes more than once, before it will go into reverse. Clearly the priority with this vehicle is going forward, not backward.
Try this, (I had a 1988 5.0 with the same issue), When you go to shift, push the clutch in, take it out of gear, let off the clutch and blip the throttle, then re-engage the clutch and shift into the next gear.
What is happening the other way is, when you push the clutch in and take it out of gear, the flywheel and clutch plates start to spin at different speeds, and won't synch up when you go to shift, thus why it is so hard.
By letting off of the clutch and blipping the throttle, you are spinning them both back up to the same speed, and they sync up smoothly.
I learned this by driving a semi-truck.
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Reply #7 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 6:56am
Hagar
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ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 6:39am:
beaky wrote
on Nov 28
th
, 2009 at 9:54pm:
Getting used to my rather stiff '90 Mustang gearbox... it and the clutch get moody sometimes. I have to stand on the clutch and get the rpms just right, or she will not shift happily, especially downshifting. I hate having to coast down a highway offramp because I can't get it down into 2nd gear... argghh!!
Needs tweaking, I guess (not in the budget right now)... it really has good and bad days; seems completely unrelated to clutch usage or anything like that. My car's other "trick" is to force me to go into 1st and just barely let out the clutch... sometimes more than once, before it will go into reverse. Clearly the priority with this vehicle is going forward, not backward.
Try this, (I had a 1988 5.0 with the same issue), When you go to shift, push the clutch in, take it out of gear, let off the clutch and blip the throttle, then re-engage the clutch and shift into the next gear.
What is happening the other way is, when you push the clutch in and take it out of gear, the flywheel and clutch plates start to spin at different speeds, and won't synch up when you go to shift, thus why it is so hard.
By letting off of the clutch and blipping the throttle, you are spinning them both back up to the same speed, and they sync up smoothly.
I learned this by driving a semi-truck.
Sounds like double de-clutching they used on the old crash gearboxes.
I imagine the Mustang has a hydraulically operated clutch so this won't apply. I once had a Vauxhall Viva with a cable operated clutch. If the engine earth (ground) lead broke or became corroded it earthed via the easiest route, directly through the clutch cable. This melted the nylon outer & it became difficult to operate, eventually seizing solid. The cure was to fit a new earth lead & replace the clutch cable.*
*PS. I just found out that the Mustang has a cable-operated clutch so this might be worth looking at.
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Reply #8 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:05am
ShaneG
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It can't hurt to try.
It must be remembered that American gearboxes are designed like garbage. Hard to shift, hard to clutch, and expensive as hell to fix when it all goes wrong.
(wait till you have to replace that clutch, you'll see.
)
I got tired of grinding gears and cussing for it to just go into the gate on mine. Once I started doing this, it was never a problem again. It works on my 5-speed Plymouth Laser too. Without it, I just grind gears and get hard changes. With this technique, it's smooth like butter every time.
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Reply #9 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:20am
Hagar
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ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:05am:
It can't hurt to try.
It must be remembered that American gearboxes are designed like garbage. Hard to shift, hard to clutch, and expensive as hell to fix when it all goes wrong.
(wait till you have to replace that clutch, you'll see.
)
I got tired of grinding gears and cussing for it to just go into the gate on mine. Once I started doing this, it was never a problem again. It works on my 5-speed Plymouth Laser too. Without it, I just grind gears and get hard changes. With this technique, it's smooth like butter every time.
I reckon it's definitely worth looking at. I wouldn't think that American gearboxes are designed any differently from those fitted to UK manufactured cars. Vauxhall is owned by GM & synchromesh gears did away with double de-clutching long before I started driving. All this gear grinding can only result in a damaged gearbox.
If your Plymouth Laser has a cable-operated clutch have a look at it. You might be blaming the gearbox when the problem is with that clutch cable.
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Reply #10 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:25am
Fozzer
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My old Vintage 1931 Brooklands Riley Nine, open, 1-1/2 seater, Supercharged, GP Racing Car, had a marvellous 4-speed + reverse, "crash", Silent Third, Gearbox, (straight-cut gears), requiring double de-clutching up and down through the Gears....loads of fun!...
...!
I also had a Wilson Pre-selector Gearbox for it...but the massive Gearbox was heavier than the bleedin' Engine!...
...!
The Gearbox in my British Army Petrol Scammel Tank Transporter, required judicious use of double-de-clutching as well...upon pain of death!...
...!
Paul....my Motor-Bike's 6-speed gearbox is a dream to operate!....
...!
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Reply #11 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:47am
ShaneG
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Hagar wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:20am:
ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:05am:
It can't hurt to try.
It must be remembered that American gearboxes are designed like garbage.
I reckon it's definitely worth looking at. I wouldn't think that American gearboxes are designed any differently from those fitted to UK manufactured cars. Vauxhall is owned by GM & synchromesh gears did away with double de-clutching long before I started driving. .
I think up until earlier this decade, just about everything automotive made in the US was total garbage, and designed that way, so that you would want to, or have to replace it within a year or two.
If stuff lasted a while, there would be no need to make new stuff, and there would be no jobs for people to buy stuff.
Once GM & Ford started buying up the European car makers, and Chrylser was bought by Daimler (best thing to happen to a US maker, EVER!) Our quality started to improve sharply.
Europeans aren't as spend crazy as Americans, you're not as bothered by the 'latest & greatest' trends that this country sometimes seems hopelessly lost in, so you make things that will last, because you don't want to have the expenses of constant repair, the fuel prices are bad enough there already to have to worry about another expense with your autos.
Here, there is a Mechanic on almost every street corner,(seriously) because we need them.
I miss the old days, pre-1987, when there wasn't a car or truck made in the US, that I couldn't work on and repair with nothing more than a basic tool set, and a Chilton's manual. Now, you need a few college degrees, and some expensive hi-tech equipment to even pop the hood on some of these cars.
That Mustang clutch could also just be feeling the effects of the previous owner who knew they were letting it go, and wanted to finally have some fun with it. I've had that happen too.
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Reply #12 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 8:44am
Hagar
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ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:47am:
Hagar wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:20am:
ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 7:05am:
It can't hurt to try.
It must be remembered that American gearboxes are designed like garbage.
I reckon it's definitely worth looking at. I wouldn't think that American gearboxes are designed any differently from those fitted to UK manufactured cars. Vauxhall is owned by GM & synchromesh gears did away with double de-clutching long before I started driving. .
I think up until earlier this decade, just about everything automotive made in the US was total garbage, and designed that way, so that you would want to, or have to replace it within a year or two.
If stuff lasted a while, there would be no need to make new stuff, and there would be no jobs for people to buy stuff.
Once GM & Ford started buying up the European car makers, and Chrylser was bought by Daimler (best thing to happen to a US maker, EVER!) Our quality started to improve sharply.
Europeans aren't as spend crazy as Americans, you're not as bothered by the 'latest & greatest' trends that this country sometimes seems hopelessly lost in, so you make things that will last, because you don't want to have the expenses of constant repair, the fuel prices are bad enough there already to have to worry about another expense with your autos.
Here, there is a Mechanic on almost every street corner,(seriously) because we need them.
Built-in obsolescence is a common practice with most manufactured products but this surprises me. US-owned companies were manufacturing cars in the UK long before the last decade. Ford UK was set up in 1911. Production was moved to Dagenham in Essex in 1932 where it remains today. In the 1960's an additional factory was based in Liverpool. Vauxhall Motors was purchased by GM in 1925 so both companies have been established for a long time in this part of the world. Although car design from both British divisions has been influenced by plants in Germany I find it difficult to believe that the design & quality of component parts like gearboxes is significantly different from similar components manufactured in the US.
PS. It's the Japanese manufacturers that have set the standard for quality in the past couple of decades.
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Reply #13 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 9:16am
ShaneG
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I think it's more the quality of the work force behind the product.
GM & Ford of Australia is another good example. Their cars & trucks have always been a notch above what we get here, and they've even brought a few here with some degree of success.
The Japanese make everything better, because of their outstanding work ethics. Honor & pride can go a long way in a production environment. In all of the factories I've worked in, it's more about getting to the end of the day, and the paycheck at the end of the week. There's always the rework department to catch and fix all the mistakes.
I used to work at a place called Mosier, in Richmond, Indiana, where transmission gears were made for Ford. I was a temp worker hired to to do QC inspection on gears to clear a backup of bad stock they had.
I stuck to their given tolerances, and protocols with every one of the gears I looked at, and declared up to 90% of what I looked at to be bad.
This naturally upset my superiors, and they had me go back through the entire stock, with a new set of tolerances, and guidelines for what was good or bad, which allowed everyone of them to pass.
Two months later, the entire shipment of gears came back from Ford being declared defective, and out of spec. Guess who's butt got chewed for it and then fired?
I've never worked as a QC person since.
Cars of those earlier generations were built with a bit more, pride I suppose. In the late 1970's- late 1990's, the US auto industry just kind of took a dump on quality, while the rest of the world excelled at it.
Cadillac is a good case in that point. At one time they were the 'gold standard' of the world. Then they nose dived in the 70's with the gas crunch, and spiraled down in the 80's with front wheel drive, heavy parts bin sharing, and harsh regulations. In that time, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti have stepped up and dominated the segment that Cadillac invented.
I'm pretty off topic now aren't I?
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Reply #14 -
Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 9:40am
Hagar
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ShaneG wrote
on Nov 29
th
, 2009 at 9:16am:
I'm pretty off topic now aren't I?
Quite but it's all very interesting. Perhaps we should start a new topic.
I'm waiting for Sean to check out my suggestion on the clutch cable.
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