Part 141 is a certification flight schools can get.  Basically they must meet several requirement, curriculum, paperwork, etc.  In return they can call themselves a certified flight school and the minimum flight times for your license and ratings is reduced. Learning to fly Part 61 is just showing up at the airport with an airplane and a flight instructor, and doing whatever the instructor decides.

One other thing worth mentioning: The decision to train under Part 61 or Part 141 will not affect your flying career in the long term. At the end of your training, you will take the same checkride and receive the same certificate no matter which route you take. Also, if you receive a private under Part 141, you could do an instrument under Part 61, or vice-versa.

Don't get the impression that Part 61 is always like something out of the old days, with an instructor turning you loose to solo after the first time you land the plane without him having to rescue you, then telling you what to read before taking the written, then crossing his fingers that the examiner on your check ride is in a good mood that day. It can be very thorough.

I did my PPASEL training under Part 61, and we followed a FAA-approved syllabus (the Jeppeson syllabus). I soloed before I did any XCs, even dual XCs; I took a written quiz before I soloed; I flew stage checks, and attended formal ground school sessions. If I wanted very detailed explanations, I usually got them, or found them myself. Sometimes I got very detailed explanations without asking!!   


This is not the case with every Part 61 operation, but it is not very unusual, as far as I know.


So what's the real difference between 61 and 141? Required minimum hours for certification (that is, for being allowed to take the check ride).

PPASEL:
Under Part 61: 40 hrs
Part 141: 35 hrs

PP-C (commercial):
Part 61: 250 hrs
Part 141: 190 hrs



So, in essence, because a school is entitled in the eyes of the FAA to write "Part 141" next to your endorsements, they can get you on your way with less total time. A PArt 61 operation can be run exactly the same way as a PArt 141 operation, but they are not allowed to let you take the PP check ride with less than 40 hrs total time, or the commercial with less than 250.


Now, as far as the school is concerned, there are other differences (paperwork, mgmt. structure, etc), and 141 schools can offer training under special foreign visa and veterans' benefits programs, but for the average student, the minimum hours (and the time and money they represent) are the only critical difference.

I mention time and money... but believe me, a 141 school can get plenty of money out of you without making you fly more. They usually have higher overhead, which means higher rates for everything.


Why the minimum hours are what they are, I don't know, exactly. Maybe because a Part 61 curriculum could be very informal, with only one instructor involved, the FAA thinks it unwise to place as much trust in that as a more "business-like" school.

But as was pointed out earlier, when you present yourself for any check ride, how many hours you have or what you did during those hours means absolutely nothing. You will have to demonstrate competence to the examiner's satisfaction. So whatever training path you take, use your time- and money- wisely! In the end, it's not the promises of a big fancy school or the reputation of the old friend-of-the-family CFI who teaches you in his airplane for free... it's you, and what you have learned.

I doubt any commercial operator, whether it's a banner-towing company or an airline, is going to care much about those 5 hours for the PP or the 60 for the commercial. they will hire or not hire you- the pilot.

You made some interesting points Rottydaddy. Regaurdless of my training, I feel more comfortable with learning what I need to know under a part 141, only because I'm only a flight sim guy and couldn't tell you a darn thing about real aviation. Maybe down the road once I acquire my private, and begin to go for my instrument and commercial ratings, that is when I can shoot for Part 61 because it would require less hours hence more money in my pocket (a whole 5%).

Jersey Flyer wrote on Nov 11^th, 2009 at 7:02pm:


I think there is some confusion here, due to a simple error in rotty's post.  The commercial rating requires 250 hours for 61 students, and 90 for 141 students.  Now regardless of which, you can do them both without any prior knowledge.  Lots of people show up at the airport not knowing the first thing about airplanes and get their license through Part 61 training.  And as for the minimum flight times, very few actually take a checkride at the bare minimum of time.  The average flight time for a private pilot is usually closer to 60 hours.

DaveSims wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 4:40pm:

It's 190 (total time)... can't seem to find the exact "chapter and verse" in the FARs... which is odd; Part 141 is more about the schools, whereas 61 is specifically about pilot certificate requirements. Never did enjoy reading the FARS... 

   But I have heard this from more than one person who "should know"; I am confident it is 190, not 90.

beaky wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 11:12pm:


And now I am posting errors, I meant 190.  In your earlier post you had transposed the hours for 61 and 141.

Good evening folks...

I am not familiar with a lot of what you talking about as I am a Canadian and we have our own Air Regs and Air Nav Orders etc.
But I am a little curious on a couple of things and I hope I don't stray you too far off topic.

An ab-intio student, would they receive a tax break on their income tax if they  go through a Certified Flying School versus an ab-intio student who does not.

When a person who applies for pilot training and I am talking about someone who is steadily employed, when they pass all their tests, can they claim their training as lets say educational and get money back on their income tax.

Would a company who wishes to purchase an aircraft and have one of their employees trained to commercial standards, would both parties benefit with tax breaks.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

190 hours is accurate for 141 schools, 250 for part 61. Unless it's changed in recent years. I'm in bad need of a new FAR/AIM manual.