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Screenshot Contest Update.. (Read 1213 times)
Oct 30th, 2009 at 9:47am

Fly2e   Offline
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Hello everybody...
I wanted to post this as I know there was some confusion about this month's nominees. We down in the Admin forum have been discussing it in detail. My post yesterday in response to some of your responses about what qualified as a shot resulted in me kind of getting fed up with hearing comments like this from time to time. After discussing it with the others in the Admin forum, it became quite clear that there is/was a problem. We are going to try a new "layout" in regards to the Theme and what is required... it will be a bit more simple so we do not have shots being questioned in future contests. Let's please move foward with this month's nominees and contest without any more posts about what and what did not qualify. They are great shots and let's judge them for what they are.

So you can see what "goes on behind the scenes", I wanted to post what Sean "Rottydaddy" posted in the Admin thread about the nominees and the issue at hand. It allowed me to see it from another perspective which is important. Rotty pretty much summed up what others perceive as what qualifies & what does not. Take a read of it and please tell me what you think... It might be a good time for us to discuss this so we are all on the same page in the future...




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Quote:
I hate to criticize, not having much to stand on (for example, not picking finalists this month). This contest represents a lot of work and passion, and I respect that.

But there's more drama here than there needs to be, and I have a suggestion that might help with that.

Obviously it is unclear to a lot of people what each contest's  requirements really are. Those of us who "get" Dave's way of formatting the contest announcements know what the "hard and fast" rules are versus what are recommendations are to sort of format the theme... but not everyone out there does, or thinks it's always clear. I'll admit myself that it's not always been clear to me, going way back.

The problem (and this isn't the first time) is that the part that is always intended to be inspirational (like the "example" picture) is being scrutinized for any idea that might give an entrant an edge. A lot of these people don't see the same mental image when they hear "low and slow" that guys like me and Dave (and most pilots) see... they see the prize, and bragging rights. So it becomes a guessing game: is it the foliage that matters most? Isn't "slow" a relative term with airplanes? Etc., etc.

All this information is so titillating they fail to realize that "The Rules", the actual rules, are a completely separate post, clearly separated from any suggestions on how to best portray the theme.

I think the reason why is that there's sometimes too much description of the theme... yet The Theme isn't presented like The Rules. A preference is shown for a sort of image in the description, but it's open-ended, because it's not really considered a Rule, apparently.
For example, if you just stated the theme simply in the title and then showed The Rules, there may be more challenging choices for us to ponder, but we wouldn't have to hear the squabbling afterwards. 

If "Low and Slow" was the only description of the theme, no picture, no details, it would still be a fun and fair contest if the entries ranged from a Cub going 65 mph over gorgeous fall  foliage (the "normal" interpretation) to some supersonic aircraft flying as low and as slow as it possibly can over, say, water (somebody eles's interpretation).
And there'd be much less drama.  Grin I think...  Undecided

If you only want light single or multi piston props flying low and slow over colorful fall foliage, maybe the theme (which would be given the same importance as the official rules) should say only:

"Low and Slow: Light single piston aircraft flying low and slow over colorful fall foliage." 


  The idea here is that the title contains the criteria for that contest. Any shot that does not include: "light piston single or multi piston/low/slow/colorful foliage" would automatically get rejected, even if it's 100% kosher freeware and clearly a raw shot in the right format, etc... even if it's otherwise a great shot!

It'd also help to list "No text; no toolbars" in the official rules. I always pass over those; it's a pretty lazy way to present something for a competition.
I was once the noobiest noob (and old to boot!), but I made damn sure I understood how to not have text, toolbars or cursors showing on my contest entries before I ever posted one. If I can do it, anybody can. Seriously. Grin


_______________________________________________________________________________




Thanks again for your cooperation and good luck to this month's nominees...

Dave  Cool

« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2009 at 1:38pm by Fly2e »  

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Reply #1 - Oct 30th, 2009 at 1:09pm

patchz   Offline
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Well done Dave. I think Sean hit the nail squarely on the head, extremely well said. And I agree. There should be no confusion and the rules should be clear, to everyone.  Smiley
 

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Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2009 at 6:27pm

Ghostrider114   Offline
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I for one thought the theme was quite clear,
these 3 sentences seemed to sum it up quite nicely:

Quote:
And what better way to see these sights than in Prop Plane or Helicopter flying "Low & Slow". We want to see a shot of a single engine prop plane skimming the tree line under an October Sky, a Beaver flying the bush on some remote destination or a Helicopter on a "Scenic Fall Tour". It is a "colorful" time of year so let's see some creativity in regards to your set up.
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 30th, 2009 at 6:38pm

doomfreak777   Offline
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    Yeah i agree here its the same thought process I went through when i posted my first shot which i thought was legitimate (it was of a goose during a foggy sunset) but subsequently removed because I was told by someone (dont think it was a mod) that it wasn't going to be accepted as it was twin prop.

The reason I thought a twin-prop would be ok was in the description it said:

"We want to see a shot of a single engine prop plane skimming the tree line under an October Sky, a Beaver flying the bush on some remote destination"

It didn't say 'we must see' etc etc hence I didn't think it was a rule as opposed to a suggestion on what is low and slow.

  After that I deleted the entry and started a new thread with a different entry that fitted the theme more appropriately, but of course the rules state you can't enter multiple shots so i fully accept it wasn't allowed. But it turns out all along my original shot would have been perfectly acceptable despite not being a single engine prop.

  Anyway thanks for clearing that up  Smiley
 
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Reply #4 - Oct 30th, 2009 at 6:38pm

nasageek   Offline
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Well Spoken Cool Can't wait for next contest! Cheesy
 
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Reply #5 - Oct 30th, 2009 at 7:08pm

ApplePie   Offline
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I doubt I'm going to win the main contest, but I can say for certain that I'll win "Most Controversial Finalist Photo" award! Smiley Grin
 

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Reply #6 - Oct 31st, 2009 at 1:19am

machineman9   Offline
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I think in the end a lot of it is down to what everyone would consider is acceptable.

If a shot doesn't fit the grade, then the judges won't put it forward for voting. If they put it into voting but people think that it isn't good enough or not right, then they won't vote for it.

Some people may just look towards the prize and not put in the effort, but it will reflect on their shot.

I don't think the rules should be too rigid as that leaves no room for creativity, but it could be a bit more specific.

But personally I think the people judging the contest (ultimately anyone who votes and the official judges) will balance out the dodgy shots. If it isn't right then people won't vote for it. However, I do think a lot of the points that were brought up were perfectly valid. On occasion there is a lack of quality in the shots. Sometimes you get shots which are far too small, other times they have the headings. Both of which will degrade the shot a lot.
 

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Reply #7 - Oct 31st, 2009 at 5:36pm

Rockson 31   Offline
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My 2 cents,

As a suggestion for upcoming contests, how about 3 criteria for the contest shot.

Criteria #1 (Aircraft)

Criteria #2 (Environment)

Criteria #3 (Shot)


For example, for this contest and based on the judges finalists, the criteria would have been setup as such:

Criteria #1 (Aircraft) Freeware Only, Single engine piston(no jets). Single prop, Plane, Helicopter or Hot Air Balloon.

Criteria #2 (Environment) Daytime in the Fall. Any Weather.

Criteria #3 (Shot) Fall foliage colors based on aircraft location. Camera or Aircraft Altitude(Ground Level to 1,500 Feet above ground level). Any camera angle.



The criteria that follows is my interpretation of the rules and suggestions for this months contest:

Criteria #1 (Aircraft) Freeware Only, Single engine piston(no jets). Single prop, Plane(Mono or Bi-plane) or Helicopter.

Criteria #2 (Environment) Daytime or Dusk in the Fall. Any Weather.

Criteria #3 (Shot) Fall foliage colors of yellow, gold, brown or any combination. Include sky in shot. Sunsets encouraged. Aircraft Altitude(Just above tree line to 150 Feet above ground level). Aircraft speed should look slow. Any camera angle.


I think with this style of criteria, there would be no confusion or hurt feelings. The shot theme criteria can be set as tight or loose as the contest hosts see fit, with no question of what the final shot should look like.

Cliff
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Reply #8 - Oct 31st, 2009 at 7:19pm

a1   Offline
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Nicely done clearing these technicalities up. Smiley
 

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Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2009 at 9:31am

nasageek   Offline
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I like the criteria, but wouldn't some of it limit the creativity? (Like limiting the time and day of when to do the shot)

Now of course if the theme is Bright and Sunny, then I would expect a shot that is during the day time. Soooo, if it goes with the theme, then, yes, set that limit, but other then that, I don't agree with a time of day limit.
Agree with everything else though! Good work Smiley
 
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Reply #10 - Nov 1st, 2009 at 10:38am

Fly2e   Offline
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Guys, we're not reinventing the wheel. The contests have always run pretty smooth. All we are saying is we now understand the problem and will go forward with a much simpler way of keeping the theme. Thanks
Dave
 

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Reply #11 - Nov 1st, 2009 at 3:26pm

nasageek   Offline
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No, Thank you for all that you have done! Smiley I really appreciate it. Cool
 
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Reply #12 - Nov 1st, 2009 at 5:44pm

Capt.Propwash   Offline
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I will probably get my head, and/or keyboard ripped off for this, but it is only MY opinion and 2 cents, and may or may not be supported by others.  As part of the theme... what part of .....
Quote:
...a shot of a single engine prop plane skimming the tree line under an October Sky, a Beaver flying the bush on some remote destination or a Helicopter on a "Scenic Fall Tour".


could someone think that a Beech Baron 58, Ford Tri-motor, 737-800, or a Concorde fits into that category.    they are not single engine planes.   


I will take credit for telling doomfreak777 that his Grumman Goose could not be entered as it is a TWIN ENGINE CRAFT.. and the theme is SINGLE ENGINE CRAFT. .... That one I will take the butt chewing on, but the reason I spoke up was to hopefully "NICELY" allow Doomfreak another chance and retract the TWIN ENGINE.

Although... Rule 6 clearly states:: Quote:
6. Once an entry is submitted, it may not be changed or replaced.  This is to keep the confusion to a minimum, and to maintain forum integrity.  Entries may be withdrawn from the contest, but no additional entries from that member will be accepted.


Sorry Doomfreak.


if someone did read the THEME, then it outlines what the MODS / Contest Starter wants in the shots. 

CRAFT: SINGLE ENGINE PROP OR HELICOPTER.  (yes helicopter has 2 "ROTORS" that could be misconstrued as "PROPS", but a Beech Baron 58 is NOT Single engined, or a helicopter.)

Time and Season: FALL (can you take decent NIGHTTIME shots of FALL Scenery??? If you can, shoot it.  Otherwise it would most likely have to be a daytime shot)

Shot:  Fall Foliage.   (how much more simpler can one say it.    Quote:
As the cold winds start to blow and the leaves start to change, the landscape around us offers some beautiful sights to see.
)



SINGLE ENGINE PLANE OR HELICOPTER..... LOW (below 2000' AGL).  FLYING SLOWER THAN NORMAL TO LOOK AT THE COLORS OF THE TREES.  .......... <~~~~ Or is this what the next contest "theme" / "rules" need to look like.






My personal gripe, and a mod can edit this as you see fit or delete the post........ "If you cant read and get a general grasp of things that are laid out in front of you as they are TYPED, then dont post."    This was my 1ST time posting to a contest here, and I clearly understood what was expected in the shot by READING the theme, then I posted accordingly, only to go up against Twin-Engine Props and they get chosen for Finalist.

as such, (and I know noone really gives a flying....) but this was the 1st and LAST contest that I will partake of.  No matter how good (or bad) my shots are.
 

The thoughts and expressions contained in the post above are solely my own, and not necessarily those of Simviation.com, its Moderators, its Staff, its Members, or other guests. They can not, are not, and will not be held liable for any thoughts, or expressions, or posts that I have made, or will make in the future.

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Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2009 at 7:20am

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My opinion of this is chill out guys.....the contest is a bit of fun, not a shouting match. If people enter things that don't quite comply with the rules then let them....the mods will decide whether or not it's allowed....

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Reply #14 - Nov 2nd, 2009 at 8:46am

Fly2e   Offline
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Quote:
Posted by: Capt.Propwash Posted on: Yesterday at 5:44pm
I will probably get my head, and/or keyboard ripped off for this, but it is only MY opinion and 2 cents, and may or may not be supported by others.  As part of the theme... what part of .....
Quote:
...a shot of a single engine prop plane skimming the tree line under an October Sky, a Beaver flying the bush on some remote destination or a Helicopter on a "Scenic Fall Tour".

could someone think that a Beech Baron 58, Ford Tri-motor, 737-800, or a Concorde fits into that category.    they are not single engine planes.   


You see, that is exactly the problem, those were just examples. I should not have said "single engined prop" asall we were looking for was "Low & Slow".
Thanks guys...

Dave
 

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Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2009 at 11:09am

Fly2e   Offline
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This Topic was moved here from The October ScreenShot Contest! by Fly2e.
 

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