Hello.
I have a "question, problem", maybe you guys can clear me and help me.

Im taking my commercial rating.I guess all of you are aware of the requirements for that.
My 'question problem' is this one.you know that we must have min. 250 hours and 50 X country and bla bla!The thing is, i have a portugues glider license, and 375 hours.I know that those hours will count towards my US hours (so i have been told) but there is one thing.I have 75 X country glider hours, i have several check point x country, distance flights and proficience flights most of them with a durations over 4 hours, and some of them with 8 hours in Indurance "mode".

Now the thing is the FAA, states that x country on power airplanes have to be 50 NM and at least with one landing.
And FAA says that gliders x country as to be made in check points method and return to origin airport.

Ok gliders X country dont need to land, they just need to do those checks points flights and return to airport. The same method as in Portugal.

My question is how can i log my glider X country in my commercial, can i do it? How? if possible, i really wanted, not to spend money on X country since i have this hours.Another thing that i dont understand is they say that at least 10 h must be in airplanes, what they mean about it.

Sorry if my English and writing is  confusing.
MANY THANKS

I'm working on my commercial rating too!  So I have a big bookmark right in the FARs (61.129 if you want to read it yourself) on the commercial requirements.

You need 250 total hours with at least 100 hours in powered aircraft and 50 in airplanes, so it sounds like you could use 150 hours of your glider time towards your rating, but you would still need another 150 hours in a powered aircraft (airplane, helicopter, blimp, etc) with at least 50 hours in an airplane.

For the cross country time, you need 50 total hours, 10 of which must be in an airplane, so I would imagine your glider cross country time would work for that as well, since it doesn't specify powered aircraft.

In addition you need to get at least 20 hours of the flying/training that is listed in  FAR 61.129(a)(3).

Double check with your CFI or someone who would know for sure.

EDIT:  Brett beat me too it.  As far as I know, you don't need to demonstrate a spin for the commercial rating, but it's still an excellent idea to know how to recover from one and to even go fly a few with an instructor.  If you're taking your checkride in a 172, you would never finish the checkride if you had to spin it, I don't know anyone that's actually been able to go more than 1/2 turn in a spin without it coming out of it or turning into a spiral.

I understood your question    I was just trying to point out that it wouldn't matter if you had 1,000,000 hours. You're instructor will need to know that you're ready to take the test.

As for X-country hours..  those are for you to gain experience in powered flight-planning (like fuel burns).. navigation.. alternate airports.. all that stuff that doesn't apply to gliding. Your instructor will need to know that you've mastered that stuff..  so you'll be logging some X-country hours, too.

Let us know how it goes 

I think it's a language thing      I was giving you a round-about answer that it's more about ability, than hours. The hours are a minimum. You could have 500 X-country hours, but not take the test, if you're not ready for it.

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My guess is no     Because you're working on powered-flight, commercial license.. and (as you noted in the first post) those X-country flights need to a minimum of 50nm.

We have a glider pilot here (Rotty), maybe he'll post soon.

I had no idea that you could glide for 50nm 

Now remember.. it's 50nm in straight-line distance from your departure airport.. NOT 50 nm flown.

I think no matter how you parce this.. you're going to have to log some X-country time.

OK.. I called my mentor... (30,000 hour, ex AirForce pilot.. 20,000 hours as a CFI)..

He said that X-country time used for a ASEL commercial rating needs to be flights that include a landing at an airport at least 50nm away.

757200ba wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 11:22pm:


The FARs say "100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes".
This means if you have helicopter, gyroplane, or airship time, it counts towards the "100 hours in powered aircraft". But gliders do not count towards the "50 in airplanes".


Remember: THE FAA DOES NOT USE THE WORD "AIRPLANE" WHEN REFERRING TO GLIDERS!!!! IF YOU SEE THE WORD "AIRPLANE" (NOT "AIRCRAFT") IN THE FARS, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT POWERED AIRPLANES, NOT GLIDERS.
You and I know that gliders are airplanes, but the FAA has its own special definition of what an "airplane" is.


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More from the FARs:

"You must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot (of which 50 hours, or in accordance with FAA Part 142, a maximum of 100 hours may have been accomplished in an approved flight simulator or approved flight training device that represents a single engine airplane)."


So, it's 50 or maybe 100 hours of sim time allowed (FAA-approved sims), and yes, when it comes to your total PIC time, gliders (and all other categories of aircraft) count.
But gliders do NOT count when it comes to the "50 in airplanes", or "100 in powered aircraft".



The other problem here, as Brett pointed out, is that the FAA defines "cross country" flights, for the purpose of any powered aircraft rating, as being a flight to an airport 50 miles away from the departure airport, with a landing at that airport.   Think of it less in terms of distance covered, and more in terms of making a flight- with a landing- to some point outside a 49 nm-radius circle of the starting point.


Believe me, I know that 50 nm in a glider requires considerable airmanship, but the FAA does not see that as being equal to landing at another airport 50 miles away.
A commerical glider pilot's rating is very respectable, too, but the FAA doesn't care about that when it comes to even the most rudimentary powered-aircraft commercial flight.

I know, it's silly... but it's the FAA.

At least you can count your glider time towards your total time! 
And because you are a glider pilot, you will probably do better on the maneuvers portion of your CP-ASEL check ride than most non-glider pilots.

Good luck!!

Its always a pleasure to know "'condors".
Most o f my flight time was made (and i havent flown a glider in 6 years)in ASW 20 (monoplace) and Grob Twin Astir (dual) and i have 4 hours on a Glaser-Dirks DG-100 ( the klast one i "had fun").And ofcourse most of my instruction was on the good old Blanick L-13 (what a lovely bird).

In my time my Xcountry were made in Portugal.With the weather and mountains we have you could go from north to south in last than 8 hours, in good conditions.Most of them were made by reporting points with ID from the ground, its not a big country so everybody use to fly the same courses.

The thing about all my questions is, even after you explanation there is one thing that or its not correct.This are the comercial req.

250 Hours minimum total flight time experience which includes:
      100 hours powered aircraft
       50 hours in airplanes
       50 hours of cross country flight time
            10 hours of which must be in airplanes

       20 hours of flight training
       10 hours instrument training
        5 hours in single engine airplanes
       10 hours training in complex or turbine

    1 daytime cross country VFR flight of at least 2 hours and 100 NM leg length
    1 night night time cross country VFR flight of at least 2 hours and 100 NM leg length

    3 hours of test prep in a single engine airplane within the preceding
        60 days prior to practical test

   10 hours solo flight time (after having attained a Private Pilot Certificate), including:

       1 solo cross country flight of at least 300 NM w/ 3 points one at least one 250 NM leg
       5 hours night solo w/ 10 takes offs & landings at airport w/ operating control tower

as you see 50 hours are requiered for Xcountry, but only 10 must be in airplanes.

Today i spoke with and FAA guy and he told me something interesting.
Ofcourse he told me that all my hours will count towards the total time.But if i go to one of the FAA oficees they can take some of X country time and add to towards the x country time, since my hours are all certified. and some of them are descreminated on distance (like 300km, 500km trip, endurance gain not just in high but with total distance).He told me that they might consider those (wich make around 27 hours) but all the other X country i made they might just consider to total time.
I have 72 hours x country, with those i loose 45 hours but if i add this 27 to the 23 that i have, it will make  exact 50 h x country.So that makes me happy.
He also told me that it depends alot, and the FAARS are not very exact when it cames to this kind of cases.

So i will try to do it.

Many thanks to all of you i will keep you posted.
Thank you

Why don't you phone, or drop by, the closest FAA GADO office.  This stuff is their bread and butter - put 'em to work  .

"Exactly. It may be negotiable... just make sure that if you are somehow allowed to do this, there is written proof of an approval by the appropriate person (your examiner would be the most likely person). "

Thank you for all your replys, you guys help a lot.
To comment your statement (if i got it right  ).

The thing is, i dont need for my cfi to sign (i guess), because i have my Portuguese log book and all my hours are sign and approved, and stamped by (INAC) wich is the guys that regulate all aviation in Portugal.

The only thing i need is to fit them in the US regulations, thing that you guys told me and it was confirmed that are a "bit grey" (i like this expression)

I guess the best option is to go to one of the FAA office and see if they can sort it out.
Many Thanks.

Well i know that.

But before that i need to have all those hours logged and approved.Wich is the all problem.I still have to do lots of things in the comercial.Just to let you know i already made my day and night vfr with 100nm, and i had my first flight on the Arrow.This week i want to take out of the way, my 10 landings at night in a tower controled airport and my 300nm x country flight.So i cant start all the Arrow manouvers.Im trying first  to take all 172 hours before i move to the Arrow.I already have the 250 hours (because they told me that the 375 glider hours can be added to my 205 hours (that i already have from my private, instrument rating) towards my commercial requirements) min. that are required(thats why im having all this fight to have my 50 hours X country out of the way too).

250 Hours minimum total flight time experience which includes:
      100 hours powered aircraft
       50 hours in airplanes
       50 hours of cross country flight time
            10 hours of which must be in airplanes

       20 hours of flight training
       10 hours instrument training
        5 hours in single engine airplanes
       10 hours training in complex or turbine

    1 daytime cross country VFR flight of at least 2 hours and 100 NM leg length
    1 night night time cross country VFR flight of at least 2 hours and 100 NM leg length

    3 hours of test prep in a single engine airplane within the preceding
        60 days prior to practical test

   10 hours solo flight time (after having attained a Private Pilot Certificate), including:

       1 solo cross country flight of at least 300 NM w/ 3 points one at least one 250 NM leg
       5 hours night solo w/ 10 takes offs & landings at airport w/ operating control tower



Thats why i started this post. Its about my hours, nothing to do with my exame.ofcourse he will only sign me off when im prepared, and have all the requirements.Only when all the requirements are met, is when he will sign me off.i guess the point of the post is going in another direction.
I will explain once again, Brett.

You need min requirements for exam.Hours.I already have my US hours(not enough for the req.) but i have Portuguese hours that need to be add.I need to know if the FAA will approve my X country flight time to my requierements.I guess you didnt understand quite well.Or its me i cant explain to you.

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I've understood the question from the first post..  And answered that question regarding the 50nm with a landing answer.

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I've just been trying to shift the focus from minimum requirements, to the big picture.

It won't matter if the FAA allows you to log all of your glider X-country time, making it fit the requirements, if the CFI isn't satisfied that you're a qualified X-country pilot. He (if he's doing his job), will require you to fly some X-country time for him, before taking the responsibility for signing you off.

Like I said in my first post.. your CFI will make sense of this for you. 

OK.. I've gone back over this thread..  seems you have 23 X-coutry hours in an airplane. That means you need 27 more.

Even if you get an FAA person to allow some of your glider hours, it leaves open that loose end that Rotty and I mentioned. I can promise you that if you have an accident; the insurance company for the airplane owner is going use that informatoin to sue you.. and the lawyer for anyone injured will use it too... and you will lose that case.

My advice is to just go out and fly 27 X-country hours and settle it once and for all