Simviation Forum - There has GOT to be a better way...

Sep 27^th, 2009 at 2:16pm

Daycab Offline
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Man, this is getting tedious. This is after a couple hours of work too! Isn't there some way to do this without all of the little stray polygons all over the place? Tongue

daycab

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Reply #1 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 4:45pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Are you trying to map the wings and fuselage, all at once.. with an unwrap no less ? ?

Man.. I don't think that can be done by a human Cheesy

Even a symetrical, tubular fuselage presents problems where things converge.. like the aft-end and nose.

Break it up into pieces and experiment with mapping each part with just a normal, planar UVW. Then do a mesh select (or split the fuselage longitudinally into two parts), so that you can map each side independently.

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Reply #2 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:06pm

Daycab Offline
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The entire fuselage wasn't like this, just stray pieces here and there...

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Reply #3 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:53pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Daycab wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 9:06pm:

The entire fuselage wasn't like this, just stray pieces here and there...

I know (I think).. but that looks like an unwrap of a very complex part.. Picture what it would look like, if you tried to represent the entire surface in 2 dimensions. Try selecting all the wing polygons and detaching them into their own part(s)... so you have just the fuselage...

Post a screenshot of the bitmap your using.. Look back at the post where I put up my PSP file.. You can see how all the parts are seperate (wings, tail, fueslage, etc..)

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Reply #4 - Sep 27^th, 2009 at 10:18pm

Daycab Offline
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Can I use more than one UVW Unwrap? I have been using Flatten Mapping and getting what is above. If I use more than one modifier, I can use normal mapping and do Front/Back and Left/Right to get a much cleaner map...

Back/Front Mapping

Top/Bottom Mapping

daycab

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Reply #5 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 1:18am

Daycab Offline
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Box mapping is my friend...

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Reply #6 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 6:56am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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There are as many ways to do this, as there are people doing it Cheesy

The trick is to get the bitmap to work with the mapping (obviously).

My advice is to have several parts (sometimes even making the fuselage into several part).

You'll start getting a feel for it as you experiment.. no matter what is published; there's really only one way to learn this stuff.. practice !

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Reply #7 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 10:26pm

Daycab Offline
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Ok, I'm still having problems with this. Tongue

In trying to apply my textures, I did the following:

I mapped them to the part in Max, saved it and exported it as an x-file. Then I converted it to a mdl file and put it into the Extra folder. No problem here...

To apply the texture, I created the map as a 2048x2048 bmp. Then I used the Nvidia Plugin to convert it to a .dds, changed the name to Extra300s_T and dropped it in the texture folder. No deal. I just got a black plane again.

As an alternative, I used DXTbmp to convert it to a DXT5 file, then used Imagetool to convert it to a .dds, renamed it and moved it to the texture folder. Still no joy... Sad

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what I am doing wrong?

daycab

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Reply #8 - Sep 28^th, 2009 at 11:02pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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First thing that comes to mind, is that there might be a filename issue. You've already got a texture to show up, so you've got that part down.

Are the filenames EXACTLY the same as the mapped files ? Are there any regular bitmaps lingering in the texture folder (like the one you used during mapping) ?

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Reply #9 - Sep 29^th, 2009 at 12:15am

Daycab Offline
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Well I wish I knew what I did right before... Roll Eyes

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Reply #10 - Sep 29^th, 2009 at 6:53am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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If it's a compression type (DXT5), and file type (DDS), that FSX recognizes.. and it's of perfect, binary dimensions.. and the pre-extension filename is exactly the same as the diffuse bitmap used in the material.. and it's in the texture folder... it WILL show up.

Now, ther are probably Max settings that GMAX does not have, so it could be something I'm not familiar with..

Check with the guys at the www.freeflightdesign.com forum

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Reply #11 - Sep 30^th, 2009 at 10:27pm

Daycab Offline
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Ok, so I figured out what I was doing wrong. It does wonders when you apply the CORRECT texture to the model before you export it... Embarrassed

But I do still have the problem I had before. The textures are not lining up.

Any thoughts?

Daycab

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Reply #12 - Sep 30^th, 2009 at 10:42pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I'd have to see a screenshot of the mapping, and a screenshot of the bitmap.

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Reply #13 - Sep 30^th, 2009 at 10:59pm

Daycab Offline
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Here they are together. Is that what you need?

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Reply #14 - Oct 1^st, 2009 at 7:00am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Yeah.. that's what I needed to see.

OK.. this is where the differences between Max and Gmax might come into play.. but I think it's pretty close.

Try mapping each part (or group of polygons) individually with just the UVW (no unwrap).

-Select a part (or mesh select a group of polygons.. ie a fuselagge or wing half), and add a UVW.

--Expand the UVW and select the gizmo

---Move and resize the GIZMO until the bitmap is aligned to just THAT part (or selected polygons)

(In Gmax..if it is selected polygons, you'll need to collapse the UVW before selecting other polygos (like the other half).

Your bitmap does not need the unwrap option, because it's not designed to be "wrapped" around a part.

You might find that as you add details (like rivets), you might need to use an unwrap, to keep details from "stretching".. But from the looks of your map. it looks like you've got that taken care of. It looks like you've selected polygons in groups that will map (the fuselage for example) from top/bottom and both sides.

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Reply #15 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 7:37pm

N2056 Offline
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The mapping looks okay, but from studying the 2 pics it looks to me like you are forgetting to flip the texture before you save the .dds file Wink

Remember...This is Fun!

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Reply #16 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 7:46pm

Daycab Offline
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Can you elaborate on 'flip the texture?'

Also, when you save it as a .dds, do you save it as a 2d or 3d image?

Last but not least, why are dentists designing texture formats for FSX?

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Reply #17 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 8:04pm

N2056 Offline
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I took your posted texture & flipped it in PSP...for me when I am ready to save a .dds version I 'merge' all of my layers into a single layer, and then I flip it (not sure of the photoshop function). Then I save it in .dds format.

Remember...This is Fun!

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Reply #18 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 8:37pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Ahh yes.. the flipping

I use ImageTool for the DDS save (it flips it for you) Cool

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Reply #19 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 10:31pm

Daycab Offline
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I did that and the textures were properly placed, but they were backwards and all distorted... Wink

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Reply #20 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 12:11pm

Daycab Offline
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You know, I'm beginning to think someone upstairs does not want me to complete a plane for FS. When I logged in, there was no Reply button, just Quote...

At any rate, SUCCESS!

But here's the odd thing. It wasn't anything I did to generate this success. I loaded the plane, got my screwed up textures, then on a whim decided to increase the texture resolution size. The texture fell into place perfectly... Tongue

Any guess on why that is?

daycab

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Reply #21 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 12:43pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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First.. I want to say, that's a very nice model

Second.. I think the differences between Max and Gmax will get me into trouble, giving advice Cheesy

Most important, is that you're learning the true art of modeling for FSX.. in that sometimes you don't even know how or why you figured it out Huh

I will advise though.. that as you learn FSX material options.. you're going to find that it's best to map parts individually, rather than all at once. That will make sense as you get into it.

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Reply #22 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 2:14pm

Daycab Offline
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Well, my reply button is back at least... Grin

Thanks for the compliment; I consider that very high praise...

But I think that while modeling was a bitch-kitty, getting a good texture down is becoming the sign of a true master. Painting is a talent and I don't think I'm that good at it. I would love to be the modelling part of a design team... 8)

At any rate, I am developing a new respect for repainters. I always used to think that people who did repaints were simply too lazy to learn how to do a whole model and while that may be true in a few cases, it's a LOT of work and you can't say they haven't accomplished something.

So good on ya' to the paint department... Cheesy

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Reply #23 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 2:23pm

N2056 Offline
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Looking good! Cool

Over time you will get a feel for how texture resolution & the size of a part being mapped work together. Textures & mapping were tough for a long time for me, but now it's pretty easy.

Remember...This is Fun!

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Reply #24 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 3:59pm

Daycab Offline
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I was playing around with textures and ended up with this... My son asked me to make him a version for him to fly. Wink

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Reply #25 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 4:12pm

N2056 Offline
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Cool!

I'd say you are pretty much hooked now... Grin

Remember...This is Fun!

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Reply #26 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 8:54pm

Daycab Offline
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Me become addicted? Naa....

I was just fooling around before, but I may actually do a fictional livery like this. Add some sponsor logos, some details like rivets, and off you go!

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Reply #27 - Oct 4^th, 2009 at 1:41pm

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Okay, it's time to put my foot down. You're having waaaaay too much fun textuing the damn thing already.

GET SOME CONTROL SURFACES ON THE THING!!!

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #28 - Oct 4^th, 2009 at 1:48pm

Daycab Offline
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I've got them, they're just hidden... Wink

Speaking of which, I think I'll give animating a shot now. Anybody know where there's tutorial on it? The SDK isn't exactly a wealth of info on how to go about it...

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Reply #29 - Oct 5^th, 2009 at 6:49pm