Simviation Forum - urmm wow

Aug 30^th, 2009 at 12:32pm

Craig. Offline
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78195

If true, then it makes the spygate thing look quite timid.
Either way me thinks young nelson can kiss goodbye to an F1 drive for good.

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Reply #1 - Aug 30^th, 2009 at 2:14pm

expat Offline
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F1 and a squeeky clean image is a bit like Bill Clinton being caught with his pants down. He was not the first, will not be the last, but was caught with his hand in the "cookie jar".
It is the same in F1, a shame, but it is so. Spying, woops I did not see you in my mirrors, and now, a safety car would be handy about now. It comes down to how far one wants to push the limits. A camera in the pit lane or a laptop full of info. A "brush" with the wall to get your team mate out of the poo or driving at 55 mph down the pit lane and not 60 mph when your team mates rival is behind you. They all do these things, just don't take the p$ss whilst doing it.
However on this subject, I would have thought "crashing" your F1 car just enough to bring the safety car out would be rather hit or miss and risks a visit to the vet!.................Unless of course you know your number within the team is up and have forwarded your bank account number to them first Grin

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Reply #2 - Aug 31^st, 2009 at 1:59pm

C Offline
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Nice one. At Singapore too; only there Valencia and Monaco could you really guarantee that to work...

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Reply #3 - Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm

expat Offline
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Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

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Reply #4 - Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm

C Offline
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expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

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Reply #5 - Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:25pm

expat Offline
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C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

So in other words condoning cheating Huh

Matt

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Reply #6 - Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:40pm

CD. Ex Member

Summoned or summonsed?

Two VERY different meanings...

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Reply #7 - Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:56pm

C Offline
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expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:25pm:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

So in other words condoning cheating Huh

Matt

Tough one. A car crashed and the safety car favoured its team mate. Whether it was ordered pre-race is another matter, but to be honest, in some ways its no different to a teams second driver being a mobile roadblock for the team number one up front.

Hard one to judge I think.

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Reply #8 - Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:23am

expat Offline
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C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:56pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:25pm:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

So in other words condoning cheating Huh

Matt

Tough one. A car crashed and the safety car favoured its team mate. Whether it was ordered pre-race is another matter, but to be honest, in some ways its no different to a teams second driver being a mobile roadblock for the team number one up front.

Hard one to judge I think.

Or team orders, your team mate "misses" a gear into a corner.

Matt

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Reply #9 - Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:38am

C Offline
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expat wrote on Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:23am:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:56pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:25pm:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

So in other words condoning cheating Huh

Matt

Tough one. A car crashed and the safety car favoured its team mate. Whether it was ordered pre-race is another matter, but to be honest, in some ways its no different to a teams second driver being a mobile roadblock for the team number one up front.

Hard one to judge I think.

Or team orders, your team mate "misses" a gear into a corner.

Matt

Yep, almost impossible to prove any dileberate action, unless they actually said the word "crash" or "put it in the wall" over the radio.

Poor qualifying, followed by a strategy which would never work...

...got to be guilty of it. Whether it demands action is for the FIA to decide.

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Reply #10 - Sep 9^th, 2009 at 1:19pm

expat Offline
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C wrote on Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:38am:

expat wrote on Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:23am:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:56pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 2:25pm:

C wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:

expat wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 12:27pm:

Now Renault have been "summoned" Huh

Matt

Autosport carries some interesting opinion this week, mainly along the lines of "yes, that's what we all thought they did, as Alonso's strategy otherwise was bonkers", followed by "fair play to them if they did. It worked nicely sacrificing one car".

Apparently Piquet was asked to "push"... A subtle code perhaps.

So in other words condoning cheating Huh

Matt

Tough one. A car crashed and the safety car favoured its team mate. Whether it was ordered pre-race is another matter, but to be honest, in some ways its no different to a teams second driver being a mobile roadblock for the team number one up front.

Hard one to judge I think.

Or team orders, your team mate "misses" a gear into a corner.

Matt

Yep, almost impossible to prove any dileberate action, unless they actually said the word "crash" or "put it in the wall" over the radio.

Poor qualifying, followed by a strategy which would never work...

...got to be guilty of it. Whether it demands action is for the FIA to decide.

The plot thickens, seems Piquet (so he says) was told to "crash" at turn 17, "The reason this part of the track was singled out was because there were no cranes present there to lift the car away, so any accident would virtually guarantee a safety car."

Crash or not to crash, but "push"

"At Turn 17 where Piquet crashed, normally the rear wheels of the Renault would lose grip on the exit - requiring the driver to ease off the throttle briefly. However, on the lap he crashed, Piquet kept accelerating even though the rear wheels had lost grip." Huh

Matt

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Reply #11 - Sep 10^th, 2009 at 11:53am

TSC. Offline
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Piquet Jnr's statement to the FIA:

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17075&Itemid=219

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Reply #12 - Sep 10^th, 2009 at 1:26pm

expat Offline
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TSC. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

Piquet Jnr's statement to the FIA:

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17075&Itemid=219

Interesting read. What is more interesting is Pat Symonds evasive answers when questioned. Sorry, but refusing to answer if he knew if Piquet was going to crash and whether he showed him where to crash is an admission of guilt. If it did not happen why would he not say so? Why is he not thumping the table at the accusations if he was innocent of such outrageous allegation? I can find no reason why he would be so evasive unless it is true and if it is exit F1 stage left Huh

Matt

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Reply #13 - Sep 10^th, 2009 at 4:50pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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Its getting to sound a little crazy in F1 right now.

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #14 - Sep 16^th, 2009 at 9:05am

Craig. Offline
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78668

Flavio, Symmonds both gone from Renault.
Renault wont dispute the allegations when they face the WMC.
To me this has to be worse than the Mclaren information swap.
This one crash altered not only the race but also the championship, as Massa was comfortably leading the race when this happend. No SC at that moment, Massa goes on to win, and the points from that give him the drivers championship. End of the day you cant take away the season results based on this, and its not worth losing sleep over, but it certainly needs to be considered in punishment.
Also Fernando apparently knows about this, according to the Piquets, and considering everything thats happend so far from their information, its hard to doubt that right now.
I feel Flavio, Pat, and Nelson are done for good in F1, Fernando may find himself not far behind if found true, he was part of the Mclaren spying saga, having knowledge of what was going on. Now this. It doesn't help his credibility.

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Reply #15 - Sep 16^th, 2009 at 9:33am

expat Offline
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Craig. wrote on Sep 16^th, 2009 at 9:05am:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78668

Flavio, Symmonds both gone from Renault.
Renault wont dispute the allegations when they face the WMC.
To me this has to be worse than the Mclaren information swap.
This one crash altered not only the race but also the championship, as Massa was comfortably leading the race when this happend. No SC at that moment, Massa goes on to win, and the points from that give him the drivers championship. End of the day you cant take away the season results based on this, and its not worth losing sleep over, but it certainly needs to be considered in punishment.
Also Fernando apparently knows about this, according to the Piquets, and considering everything thats happend so far from their information, its hard to doubt that right now.
I feel Flavio, Pat, and Nelson are done for good in F1, Fernando may find himself not far behind if found true, he was part of the Mclaren spying saga, having knowledge of what was going on. Now this. It doesn't help his credibility.

Quote:

“The ING Renault F1 Team will not dispute the recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix,” the statement said.

“It also wishes to state that its managing director, Flavio Briatore, and its executive director of engineering, Pat Symonds, have left the team.

Well, smoke, fire etc. Does not get much more clear cut that that Shocked

This is now a roaring California wild fire. I agree, this makes McLaren look like a quick glance over the should of Ferrari. They effectively as you say altered the outcome of the championship. Now the question whether Fred was in the know is the next big question or not and that will have a direct effect on red overalls next season I would have thought. Now all that remains is what sort of punishment is dealt out. Firing the concerned parties will go only so far. Also what about legal action against Flav and Symmons by the FAI, Renault themselves and to a lesser extent Piquet himself. Could turn out to be rather an expensive time for one Mr Briatore (not that I am upset, always though he was a slimy flash git anyway Grin

)

Matt

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Reply #16 - Sep 16^th, 2009 at 10:09am

Craig. Offline
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Well Spying got those involved a ban.
Race fixing should certainly at least get that much, plus fines and maybe a lifetime ban. Piquet Jr will never sit in an F1 cockpit again. Personally I think the Piquets have gone the wrong way about this. I know he was bitter about losing his seat, but with his name, his fathers backing and the new teams next season, he'd have likely found a drive. He can kiss all that goodbye now and he's pee'd on the Piquet name as well.. I dont for one minute think they did this to clear their consciences.
Not sad to see Flavio gone, he did a lot for F1 but his time has long gone.
Symonds, its a shame he's one of the best engineers in the biz, but this puts a cloud over it all.

Fernando, I think next weeks hearing will bring that to light, but something tells me his season may be done anyway, as Renault are facing a ban if found guilty.

As a side note: "then there was one" Its now Max Mosely head to head with Luca Di'Montezemelo. He's gotten rid of two of the three thorns in his side. This could be a fun two months.

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Reply #17 - Sep 17^th, 2009 at 1:48pm

eno Offline
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There probably would have been a drive for Piquet at BMW as they have been bought by the Arab consorium behind the Nott's County buy out. So it looks like they may survive in some form or another.

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Reply #18 - Sep 17^th, 2009 at 2:56pm

C Offline
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As the back page of The Times said today,

Quote:

The worst act of cheating in the history of sport

After a little consideration, I'm rather inclined to agree. A few rugby incidents have gone a little far, and caused fairly serious injury, but this could have been far worse.

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Reply #19 - Sep 17^th, 2009 at 3:03pm

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Quote:

The worst act of cheating in the history of sport

For what it's worth I think it's a very long time since F1 could be considered a sport.

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Reply #20 - Sep 17^th, 2009 at 5:16pm

C Offline
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Hagar wrote on Sep 17^th, 2009 at 3:03pm:

Quote:

The worst act of cheating in the history of sport

For what it's worth I think it's a very long time since F1 could be considered a sport.

Which is linked into the big manufacturers taking over independent teams (Renault, BMW, Honda, and to an extent McLaren with Mercedes - at least Toyota had the decency to set up from new) in the past 15 years, and as was seen in Singapore, letting commercial pressures and the need for publicity dictate abysmal practices.

Hopefully the introduction of some new blood next year in the form of 3 or 4 new customer teams will bring the sport down to earth.

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