Personally I don't think there's too much you can complain about - and certainly not crew duty/hours. That would just be bad luck that your crew was approaching the end of their crew duty day (they wouldn't have "timed out" during the flight, but sometime just after it if they'd been planned efficiently). Another day and you may have been lucky with a crew flying their first sector of the day - all just a consequence of flight crews needing to fly multi sector days - if they didn't most airlines would be bankrupt quite quickly.

Weather and diversions are just one of those things. An "act of God" so to speak (unless of course you take off with the weather at the destination being forecast to be unfit around the time of your arrival - in which case a delay is probably prudent - again upsetting the pax!).

If I can just sneak in here for a moment! I have always thought that every crew is different. Sometimes you can tell when things are clicking as soon as you board. And sometimes, I can feel the tension in the air when the crew is overworked. All that said, we, as customers,
are often herded to our destinations. I remember the Hudson River landing a few months ago,that crew was clicking that day. Passengers were quite happy to stand on the wings, in middle of the Hudson, and shake hands with the pilot. They get thier underwear back after the authorities are through with them.  But they are happy.
The way I am treated by airline ground and air staff dictates the way I spend my money!  (This means I agree with you )

Working on the other side of the fence, it does not matter what reason you give a passenger as to why something happened, they never accept the reasons given and think that they have been short changed (even when they have only paid change for the flight). Also when you have 100 plus people giving you the same hard time about the same problem and each one thinks that they are the most important person in the room............we wonder why the people in customer service switch off give the minimum required and spout the party line. Sometimes shit just happens, we (airlines) are only human, but everyone expects be treated like the president on Air Force One and when it does not go like clockwork it is the end of the world and a personal attack against them. Ironically these are the same people who when at work talk to co-worker about the jerk they just had to deal with at the front desk who would not accept any answer or reason given to them

Matt

PS just to clarify, I a talking in general here and not about you Davysims

There certainly is a lot wrong with the industry as a whole, but every time my airline troubles begin with a weather (or maintenance) delay, I'm the one sitting there smiling and thinking "thank you for not just 'going for it!'" 
I'd rather spend 5 agonizing hours squirming on a gate bench (and I have, more than once) than be on board while a crew decides to be daring.
And I definitely don't like to fly with a tuckered-out crew.

"Time to spare? travel by air! More time yet? Take a jet!"
That saying predates deregulation and all the rest of it... 

DaveSims wrote on Jul 15^th, 2009 at 12:47pm:



At the end of the day, airlines have a captive audience. Customer service for one airline is a waste of money for the next. Raynair for example, customer service does not exist. There are no contact phone numbers, just email. You are lucky to get an answer about anything. The customer is always wrong and is going to always find something to complain about. They are the last airline the world I would fly with. I would rather walk. What is the reaction to this service..........They are booked out. As in the States to. Flights are always over booked and you always have people trying to bargain there way on board at the gate. I am not defending the attitude, but when you have people cuing at the door even though you provide a crappy service, why waste money improving said service. It is all about margins and until your margin is starting to be hurt, any extra costs is going to squeeze them even harder. You would probably suffer heart failure at Ryanair customer service..........Look, I have your money already, now phuq off and sit down and that will be a $1 for the thimble of water and $00.50 for the napkin to go with it

As for crew times, what is irresponsible. Was the aircraft on the ground before the crew time ran out, then nothing was illegal. How many hours should a crew have in hand just in case they are delayed. If that was the case, then every aircraft would have to be double crewed. As Charlie says, if they had already flown a couple of legs and was on the last one, it was just unlucky. Once a crew receive or make the decision to divert it is game over, even if the aircraft behind gets the all clear, you can't just slot back in. Same on the ground. I have maintenance to perform between legs and have over run the Slot by a couple of minutes. Sometimes you have to wait up to an hour for a new one. In the air it is no different.

Matt

DaveSims wrote on Jul 15^th, 2009 at 1:56pm:



Crews can legally over run but only be a set amount and only so often in a set period.

§ 135.267 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: Unscheduled one- and two-pilot crews.

(a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time as a member of a one- or two-pilot crew if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed—

(1) 500 hours in any calendar quarter.

(2) 800 hours in any two consecutive calendar quarters.

(3) 1,400 hours in any calendar year.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight when added to any other commercial flying by that flight crewmember may not exceed—

(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this part for the operation being conducted.

(c) A flight crewmember's flight time may exceed the flight time limits of paragraph (b) of this section if the assigned flight time occurs during a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours and—

(1) If this duty period is immediately preceded by and followed by a required rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours of rest;

(2) If flight time is assigned during this period, that total flight time when added to any other commercial flying by the flight crewmember may not exceed—

(i) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(ii) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots; and

(3) If the combined duty and rest periods equal 24 hours.

(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.

(e) When a flight crewmember has exceeded the daily flight time limitations in this section, because of circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder or flight crewmember (such as adverse weather conditions), that flight crewmember must have a rest period before being assigned or accepting an assignment for flight time of at least—

(1) 11 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by not more than 30 minutes;

(2) 12 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 30 minutes, but not more than 60 minutes; and

(3) 16 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 60 minutes.

(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.


Matt

RitterKreuz wrote on Jul 17^th, 2009 at 1:33pm:


And that is it in a nutshell.

Matt

Nigel© wrote on Jul 17^th, 2009 at 8:01pm:



Looks like I would fly Ryanair after all 

Matt