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another ILS question (Read 2425 times)

Reply #30 - Jul 14^th, 2009 at 1:26pm

RickG Offline
Colonel
I Fly Sim!
Southwest Canada

Gender:
Posts: 245

Hi. When I mentioned "aiming", I just kinda said it wrong. I was dialed in, and on course at 45 degrees, but just had to keep correcting my getting off course a touch. I have done that flight a few times now, with 1nm vis, and no gps. Actually once I got a handle on vor and ndb I rarely do gps anymore. I was unable to see anything til I got to approx 1000" msl and I was 2nm from the airport. As far as your 7000msl--well, I dunno. I don't like 'guessing', but my best guess would be to do with the descent rate and getting to 2000msl at the right time. Anyway, I am pretty sure I understand what you have been showing me so far, just gotta refine my technique a bit. It's not a very pretty flight plan, when landed, and looking at the map Embarrassed

Thanks again.

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Reply #31 - Jul 14^th, 2009 at 1:45pm

RickG Offline
Colonel
I Fly Sim!
Southwest Canada

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Posts: 245

If this works--- here's a pic of my attempt

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Reply #32 - Jul 14^th, 2009 at 1:57pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Posts: 3593

That screenshot of your approach is thing of BEAUTY !!!

There's a little "waggle" as you're going outbound, trying to grab the 320 radial (which dispells any doubt that you're using the VOR).. and the procedure turn is scary good.. with another little "waggle" as you caught yourself turning inbound a little early.

If your altitudes are good.. I'll sign you off on VOR approaches right now (well.. after we perfect holding) Cool

You're no doubt getting this.. and getting how much of a cruch, a GPS can be. .. and how much you can cheat yourself out of, by not learning this stuf.. Your VFR flying will get more precise too.. that's a by-product of flying when you can't see anything Cool

OK.. I'll help you on the altitude stuff. IFR altitudes are the "thousands".. even if you're heading is the big compass numbers (181-360) ... odd if you're flying at the small numbers (001-180)

VFR headings are the same (odd even), but add 500.

EX: IFR 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000
VFR 4500. 5500. 6500. 7500

AND.. these altitudes begin above 3000agl

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Reply #33 - Jul 14^th, 2009 at 2:24pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender:
Posts: 3593

While you've got this IFR frame of mind going.. I'll opine a bit Tongue

Someone might ask, "Why bother flying TO the VOR, just to come back in ? " ... "Why not just fly straight in ?"

As Mobuis pointed out; so long as you're insdie the 10nm, and ON the final approach course (tracking 140), you "can" just fly it straight in.

But ponder this.. without ATC vectors, and no DME; how would you know how far out you were ? That's the theory behind flying TO the VOR first. It's your reference point. If you know haw far you've flown outbound, you know how far out you are, after reversing course. Make sense ?

On that note.. it wouldn't surprise me if this plate had that special note; ' NoPT' (no procedure turn required). It would read something like; "NoPT if DME equuiped".. because obviously, with a DME, you'd know how far out you were, and could time the descent accordingly.

Which segues us to my next point Wink

There is a VOR/DME approach for runway 16R

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0907/00142VD16R.PDF

You can see that if you have a DME, you can come in from just about any direction... maintain a 9nm radius (DME arc), as you fly around to the north, an so long as you're at 3000msl, you can just turn inbound (else you'd have to fly the procedure turn, losing altitude, and execute something similar to the regular VOR approach).

See the "3000 NoPT" on the arcs ?

Also see that with a DME, you're given an altitude step-down (wich is also the final approach fix) at 1500msl... and most importantly, that with the extra precision of a DME; you're allowed down to 980msl Cool

Fly that approach a few times.. with and without using the arc..

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Reply #34 - Jul 15^th, 2009 at 8:20pm

RickG Offline
Colonel
I Fly Sim!
Southwest Canada

Gender:
Posts: 245

Hi again. Well, I must admit I am quite pleased with myself, lol. Thanks for the pat on the back. Just need to refine my turns a bit and all is good I guess. I was wondering tho, where I was on top of the vor and did the initial turn to 320--I probably should have started my turn a bit earlier? And how about the missed approach? I understand the climb to 1700, turn right to 2000 and aim for the vor, but then what? It looks like the legs are 329 and 149 but that's all I can figure. Would you normally fly that until atc vectored you to land, and typically, how long are those legs? Anywya, thanks again Brett. Rick

Win7 Home Premium X64, P55-USB3 mobo, Intel Core i7 860 @ 2.80 ghz, 4gb ram, GeForce GTX 460 FSX Deluxe SP1&2

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Reply #35 - Jul 16^th, 2009 at 6:55am

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender:
Posts: 3593

Ahhhh.. instrument turns (i.e.. at a VOR, or inbound).. and holds.. I'm gonna start other threads for these.

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