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I will I will I will (Read 1166 times)
Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:11pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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Let me introduce myself, I am 16 years old from Northern New Jersey (USA), and I have a Dream!

I will, no matter what it takes, become a Professional Airline Pilot! I am dedicated and willing to spend the rest of my LIFE chasing that dream! My plan is to go to a good - no GREAT aviation college, I've already been looking at a few, but my primary state I would love to go to is Flordia, because I know that is a pilots paradise! Next year is my senior year in highschool, I am an honor-roll student, I've taken my SAT's, and I will be taking flight lessons this summer! If any experience pilots, or just any aviation buffs can give me any usefull advice that I can really use to persue my dream, I would really appreciate it  Cheesy I look up to each and every pilot, because I hope to see my self in their shoes in the future!
 
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Reply #1 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 11:56pm

beaky   Offline
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First thing I'd advise you to do is to find a commercial pilots' forum, and seek advice there, if you haven't already.

Not being even a commercial ticket holder, let alone an ATP, I'm not the best source of advice, but what I've gathered from airline pilots is that it's not really the reputation of the college, or even a degree related to aviation, that will get you where you want to be. In fact, a degree in something completely different is a wise choice, because airline flying is not exactly the most secure career going nowadays.

 Schools like Embry-Riddle are expensive (if you haven't looked at their tuition costs, etc., sit down before you do!!), and someone with a fancy degree in Flight Management or whatever, and the commercial, instrument, CFI, and multi ratings could still find themselves with nothing but a lifetime of debt, and still hundreds of hours to rack up before an airline will even grant them a interview. Meanwhile, the rent and bills won't pay themselves... a "fallback" skill set is very important.

You gotta love it - and I mean, love it, to hang in there long enough to have a cushy left-seat gig with a prosperous airline, on routes and schedules that actually allow them to have a life.  The airline pilots I know don't do it for the money, or the prestige... because it's not like that anymore. They just do it because they are proud to have risen to that level of professionalism, and because they love the view from the office.  Grin

But before you even think about all this, you really ought to come down to 47N some time and take a glider lesson. You will thank yourself later...  Grin

 

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Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 2:27pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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beaky wrote on Jun 14th, 2009 at 11:56pm:
First thing I'd advise you to do is to find a commercial pilots' forum, and seek advice there, if you haven't already.

Not being even a commercial ticket holder, let alone an ATP, I'm not the best source of advice, but what I've gathered from airline pilots is that it's not really the reputation of the college, or even a degree related to aviation, that will get you where you want to be. In fact, a degree in something completely different is a wise choice, because airline flying is not exactly the most secure career going nowadays.

 Schools like Embry-Riddle are expensive (if you haven't looked at their tuition costs, etc., sit down before you do!!), and someone with a fancy degree in Flight Management or whatever, and the commercial, instrument, CFI, and multi ratings could still find themselves with nothing but a lifetime of debt, and still hundreds of hours to rack up before an airline will even grant them a interview. Meanwhile, the rent and bills won't pay themselves... a "fallback" skill set is very important.

You gotta love it - and I mean, love it, to hang in there long enough to have a cushy left-seat gig with a prosperous airline, on routes and schedules that actually allow them to have a life.  The airline pilots I know don't do it for the money, or the prestige... because it's not like that anymore. They just do it because they are proud to have risen to that level of professionalism, and because they love the view from the office.  Grin

But before you even think about all this, you really ought to come down to 47N some time and take a glider lesson. You will thank yourself later...  Grin




I would absolutely love to come down, can you give me a PM regarding directions please?
 
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Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 10:31pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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have fun, chase your dreams and dont let anyone tell you it cant be done.

because it can.

Just know what your getting yourself into... the profession is not what its cracked up to be  Undecided
 
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Reply #4 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am

Travis   Offline
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I've been attending TSTC (Texas State Technical College in Waco) for a year now, learning to fly.  I will tell you that it has the best program for pilot training in the state.  Baylor sends it's students to us for training.  If you're at all interested in living in Texas, you should go here.  However, if you can somehow manage it, definitely go to Florida.  One of my instructors spent some time there getting his CFI, and said it was one of the best times in his life.  However, living expenses are a bit on the steep side.

Every airline I have heard of requires a bachelor's degree (4 year study) in ANY field.  It could be Basket Weaving, they won't care.

As for how to support yourself while trying to get interviews and getting your bachelor's, you would be surprised at the number of jobs available to someone with a private license, especially once you get your multi-engine rating.
 

...
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Reply #5 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:57pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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Travis wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am:
I've been attending TSTC (Texas State Technical College in Waco) for a year now, learning to fly.  I will tell you that it has the best program for pilot training in the state.


Agreed, it is a great school, and im but an hour flight away from it.

Travis wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am:
Every airline I have heard of requires a bachelor's degree (4 year study) in ANY field.


not so fast... while I agree it is important to have a college degree (only to give you some way of getting a ground bound job when the airline furloughs you) it is not a hard-coded requirement.

I got my first airline job at a red white and blue striped airline with only a high school diploma, i know several at southwest, at least 2 at delta and 1 at continental without a any college level degree.

Travis wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am:
you would be surprised at the number of jobs available to someone with a private license, especially once you get your multi-engine rating.


and that number is ZERO - or its supposed to be - until you get your commercial license its not a job - its a volunteer position.

you get paid to do a job - and you cannot legally fly for hire with only a private license.

"volunteer opportunities" probably would have been the term to go with over "job"


 
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Reply #6 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 8:25pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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Travis wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am:
I've been attending TSTC (Texas State Technical College in Waco) for a year now, learning to fly.  I will tell you that it has the best program for pilot training in the state.  Baylor sends it's students to us for training.  If you're at all interested in living in Texas, you should go here.  However, if you can somehow manage it, definitely go to Florida.  One of my instructors spent some time there getting his CFI, and said it was one of the best times in his life.  However, living expenses are a bit on the steep side.

Every airline I have heard of requires a bachelor's degree (4 year study) in ANY field.  It could be Basket Weaving, they won't care.

As for how to support yourself while trying to get interviews and getting your bachelor's, you would be surprised at the number of jobs available to someone with a private license, especially once you get your multi-engine rating.



Texas is also another possibility, I've been searching colleges every where... Theres also one in long island NY called "Dowling College" which is a pretty nice school. I checked it out and I got a tour from one of the admins.. They have their own airfield @ brookhaven and they have piper warriors and cessna 172's, the only down side is the weather :s

But Florida and Texas seem like really awesome options ...

I know it is possible to go about this profession without a college education, and trust me I've wanted to start flying as soon as I get my high school diploma BUT - my parents are simpily not happy with that, they would rather see me have a college degree incase something doesn't work out as planned, but I am aware that it is possible to become an airline pilot with out a college degree
 
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Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 8:41pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Just become an instructor, and deliver pizza part time.

You'll get paid to fly.. have a healthy schedule, and make more money.
(I'm not kidding)
 
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Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 9:59pm

Willit Run   Offline
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Great Luck on your dream!!

Here is a pilot forum I go on all the time. 
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/

Cory
 

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Reply #9 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 1:29pm

flyboy 28   Offline
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If you really want to go through the motions of becoming a commercial pilot, check out the County College of Morris. They offer a great two-year aviation program, credits are transferable to most four-year schools, and they fly out of MMU. If you're willing to commute from Newark to Randolph, it's a great way to start flying and get your foot in the door without a commitment of going to a four-year school. And the price tag.
 
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Reply #10 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 5:33pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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wow, I have to go check that out..

I just signed up to get some info on taking my first flight lessons this summer at Essex County Airport in caldwell
 
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Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:17am

flyboy 28   Offline
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Jersey Flyer wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 5:33pm:
I just signed up to get some info on taking my first flight lessons this summer at Essex County Airport in caldwell


I'll likely see you around then. I work at Avantair at CDW.
 
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Reply #12 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 5:47pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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flyboy 28 wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:17am:
Jersey Flyer wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 5:33pm:
I just signed up to get some info on taking my first flight lessons this summer at Essex County Airport in caldwell


I'll likely see you around then. I work at Avantair at CDW.


Oh, alright awesome! I think the school name is Century Air if im not mistaken
 
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Reply #13 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 10:19pm

MIKE JG   Offline
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Jersey, I was an airline pilot for 10 years up until last summer.  If you want to know a bit more about "living the dream", send me a PM.  I also attended a 4 year aviation program.
 

-Mike G.

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Reply #14 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:15am

expat   Offline
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Travis wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38am:
Every airline I have heard of requires a bachelor's degree (4 year study) in ANY field.  It could be Basket Weaving, they won't care.


Why on earth do you need a bachelor's?? You have just sent all that time and money on pilot training and now you need to put a BA on top. Just because you have one does not mean for one second you can make it as a pilot. If as you say they don't care what it is in, then it makes it even more pointless. The US seems to suffer from qualification inflation in just about every corner of employment. Burger flipping will require a three year university course before long Roll Eyes

Matt
 

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Reply #15 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 3:04am

Hagar   Offline
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expat wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:15am:
The US seems to suffer from qualification inflation in just about every corner of employment. Burger flipping will require a three year university course before long Roll Eyes

LOL There's a lot of truth in that. Unfortunately it's not restricted to the US.
 

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Reply #16 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 7:24am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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It's the commitment thing.. showing that you can  take on something, and finish it. One of many methods for narrowing the field.. not to mention the evidence of intellect.. and a person no doubt leaves a university, better educated.

If you have 1000 people applying to you for a job... and that job itself requires a commitment to lots of technical training (training that you, the employer will be paying for); I think it's prudent to limit your investment risk, as the employer; to potential employees with a college degree.
 
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Reply #17 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 12:57pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 7:24am:
It's the commitment thing.. showing that you can  take on something, and finish it. One of many methods for narrowing the field.. not to mention the evidence of intellect.. and a person no doubt leaves a university, better educated.

If you have 1000 people applying to you for a job... and that job itself requires a commitment to lots of technical training (training that you, the employer will be paying for); I think it's prudent to limit your investment risk, as the employer; to potential employees with a college degree.



some truth to that... but on the other hand... you cannot get your private, instrument, multi, commercial, commercial multi, cfi, cfii, mei and atp in 24 months without some sort of commitment and intellect.

these airline interviewers know the difficulty and monetary strain of getting all your hours, and all the training to complete the multitude of ratings and licenses without the added expense and hassle of attending a 4 year degree program.

lets face it... even if you went to a nice flight school that DOESNT offer a degree and you completed all your training for all your ratings and licenses your still looking at a price tag in the neighborhood of $50K-100K.

tack on a degree... and Whammo you are well into debt for most of your professional life... at least on any sort of pilot salary.

while i think a degree is very important for expanding your options for any one of the 3 or 4 times in your professional career you will be laid off or furloughed or otherwise without work in this industry... its not essential to getting an airline job (though it helps)

even without a degree i received a job offer everywhere i interviewed... (im close to finishing it even at a snails pace)

the good news is - generally airline pilots are placed in charge of interviewing and hiring other airline pilots.

with a good personal interview, a thorough technical interview, a written exam, and a simulator ride portion of the interview... they are able to determine whether or not you would make a good "investment".

now... if CEO/managment types were placed in charge of interviews you would have an extreme pilot shortage as there are very few pilots out there with all their licenses and ratings who also happen to have a Masters degree in Business Management.

Im with Brett... grab an old 172, get a pizza delivery job or something similar... instruct when the opportunity comes and do your pizza delivery job on the side (or vice versa)

just keep in mind... most professional pilots i know say they would "beat their kid black and blue if he said he wanted to be a professional pilot just like daddy."
 
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Reply #18 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:38pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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It's weird how these things go in cycles..  I'm old enough to remember that at 20 years old.. airline piloting was out of the question for me. We were still on the edge of the era where  ONLY ex-military pilots need even apply... and those without perfect, uncorrected vision could forget about it too.

Then, not all that long ago.. 1200 hours and a multi-engine rating all by itself got your foot in the door.

The booming economy of the 80s and 90s had many airlines competing for both passengers and pilots.. wasn't there even a pilot shortage for a while ?

The same boom/bust that converted airports from glamorous places where adventures began; into giant bus depots with people sleeping on floors.. has turned the once glamorous and prestigious job as an airline pilot, into that of an over-worked, under-paid robot.

You can literally drop out of high school.. take a job delivering pizza.. stick with it and work your way into management, and have a MUCH more financially satisfying career, by age 30, than you could flying jets.

The big problem now, is that airlines KNOW that most aspiring pilots will work for nothing, just to be flying ...
 
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Reply #19 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 2:06pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:38pm:
Then, not all that long ago.. 1200 hours and a multi-engine rating all by itself got your foot in the door.


Sadly... one new hire of ours had about 300 hours total time on the date he entered training.  Shocked

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:38pm:
The booming economy of the 80s and 90s had many airlines competing for both passengers and pilots.. wasn't there even a pilot shortage for a while ?


in the mid 90's when i got into aviation, while i was working on my private... individuals who were preparing to graduate already had job offers... before they even had all the certificates. so yeah... i guess that translates to a shortage - or just a big boom

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:38pm:
has turned the once glamorous and prestigious job as an airline pilot, into that of an over-worked, under-paid robot.


so right  Embarrassed

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:38pm:
The big problem now, is that airlines KNOW that most aspiring pilots will work for nothing, just to be flying ...


they are the predators of youthful aspirations.  Angry

look at any flying magazine flight school ad - all targeting 18-20 year old kids... largely women or minorities.

this bunch of naive diaper wearers have no idea.  Cry
 
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Reply #20 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 2:16pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
they are the predators of youthful aspirations. 

look at any flying magazine flight school ad - all targeting 18-20 year old kids... largely women or minorities.

this bunch of naive diaper wearers have no idea. 


Yeah.. I was talking about that the other day, with my instrument instructor (now flying piston twins for mapping photography)..

This isn't racial or political.. just a fact that these "schools" know that those groups can get grants and loans more readily.. they'll put the kids into debt, and not blink.
 
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Reply #21 - Jun 26th, 2009 at 10:32pm

MIKE JG   Offline
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I would love to sit here and disagree with everything that these two just said about the current state of the profession. 

Problem is that they are spot on and I couldn't have said it better myself.  It is really a shame what the job has become.

If you are going to get into it these days, make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.
 

-Mike G.

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Reply #22 - Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:53am

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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I get the picture. I do. I've been educated on how hard it is becoming an airline pilot, especially with the struggling economy and everything else.. I dont care if I live in a tent for a few years, I will become an airline pilot. I know it will be hard, lets face it I don't come from the wealthiest family... I live in a normal suburban home in New Jersey.... but I will  become a pilot, no matter what it takes.
 
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Reply #23 - Jun 28th, 2009 at 5:46pm

MIKE JG   Offline
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Jersey the problem with this "I will no matter the cost" attitude is that this is directly responsible for bringing the profession to the point that it's at these days.

Quote:
I don't care if I have to live in a tent for a few years.


This is exactly what airline management is counting on.  Then they can pay you next to nothing and make you work more hours for less pay.  The next generation comes along and now their pay is less than that of a guy flipping burgers at a fast food joint, all because someone was willing to "do whatever it takes" to get the job.  

Someone HAS to stand up for the profession some day and say "no" to the idea of doing whatever it takes to make it.  Instead upcoming pilots need to realize that they are highly skilled individuals who have invested a great deal of time and money honing their skills and they WILL NOT work for poverty level wages just to fly a plane for a living.

Until this happens, nothing will change.  

I do not wish to rain on anyone's parade so I will make no further comment on this topic, it's been beaten to death on pilot forums for years now.  I just ask that you seriously reconsider your "living in a tent" idea before you dive right in.
 

-Mike G.

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Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2009 at 8:09pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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go to school to be a lawyer or doctor or some other profession.

buy yourself a small plane and fly when you want, on your terms.

that's the best advice i could give anyone looking to go into professional aviation.
 
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Reply #25 - Jun 29th, 2009 at 1:10am

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I was exactly in the same situation a couple of years ago. I Said "I will I will I will."

Now I won't. Or at least won't for some time. When you choose a career, everybody says: "Do what you want", but I think aviation is the exception.

Why did I decide not to become an airline pilot? With a lot of research I discovered it is not what I thought it was. Yes, you enjoy the view, it feels great, but on the economy side, you will be much worse than with another career, and you will have put a lot of effort (personal and economic) for something that doesn't pay well at all. The facts BNL2001 and RitterKreuz mentioned are true. Sad

I'm studying Audiovisual Communications now at Universidad de Lima. It is my second passion (discovered it last year, just like I discovered aviation 3 years ago), and love it as well. It was a VERY tough decision to make, but I hope I made it right.

I'm not saying that deciding to study aviation now is definitely a bad choice, considering I love aviation. You just have to stablish priorities.

Best of luck, mate! Smiley

Alonso
 

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Reply #26 - Jun 29th, 2009 at 7:48am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'm feeling retrospective   Cheesy (grant me a little political, creative license, Mods)

Nobody is certain how these things happen, exactly..  What has happened to piloting, is a good microcosm of what has happened (is happening) to our culture and society. Pride, independence, self-sufficiency, character, big-picture/long-term thinking and integrity are becoming less and less important. Those are values that require a sort of "teaching"... as in they're passed from one generation to the next.

Of course, the current economy plays a role in what is happeneing to aviation as a career.., but its state (and our ability to recover) are also victims to this decline. The main reason that we were able to recover from the Great Depression; is that as a people, we proud and felt priviledged to live with such freedom and opportunity. Patriotism and civics were core parts of public education.. long-since replaced by new-age gobbly-goop. Politicians use to inspire with orations that included calls for us to, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country".. whereas today's politicians get elected (and re-elected), by convincing everyone to expect the government to take care of them, literally.

I digress....

ANYway.. the revered airline pilot, is much like the doctor. Society wanted, and even needed them to be bigger-than-life entities. Some of the reasons are obvious... we literally place our lives in their hands.. but the other reasons are more subtle. As important as the primary skills might be, we all need to feel that there's even more to it. We need(ed) to place blind trust in these men. Somewhere along the line, seeing a flight crew walk through an airport as something awe-inspiring; fell the way of the doctor's house-call. Somehow, through all of this, doctors became clinic staffers, and pilots became bus drivers...  and teachers went from proud stewards who guided even the under-achievers through a public education, to babby-sitters, happy if 1/2 their charge end up able to read.

My point ?   Maybe it's not all bad to chase the piloting dream. The other careers mentioned here aren't showing a much brighter future. Doctor-ing is headed toward being a government job.. and with the government running everything, the need for skilled lawyers diminishes. Heck, if the economy keeps spiraling downward, even the airlines might end up as government entities.. and nobody will be able to afford air travel, anyway...

BE BOLD..chase that dream  (while you still can), we need Captain Sullys , more than ever  Cool


 
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Reply #27 - Jun 29th, 2009 at 4:41pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
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If change is what we need, than change is what I will give. Right now, the pit of my stomach continues to churn, and I want to imagine down the road, me being broke, worrying about my money problems while being so busy with work I won't have time for anything else in life.. Its easy for me right now to sit here infront of my desktop computer at age 16 and think that. As I stated in my first post, I will do what ever it takes.

If this industry needs change, it only takes one person. It takes one person with a voice, and a dream. Take a look at Mr. Barack Obama. He achieved his goal. He may not be the most loved guy out there, but he grew up broke with no parents, and now he's running one of the most power nations in the world. Look at the United States Government before he took office. Most people would agree that the government was some what corrupt during the bush administration, but he still persued his dream and he did not settle for anything less.

I am referring to him because he has my respect to the fullest. All of this information is new to me, information of how unsatisfying it may be to become a pilot. I will be entering the workforce of Aviation in the near coming years... If we need to change the way this process works in order for the better of the future.. then I will work my hardest and try my absolute best to make it as easy and convienient as possible for future pilots like me to live.

I will never fully understand what its like to live on a Pilot's Salary untill I actually LIVE on it, and from there I am sure I will know what I want to do. Thank you all for your information, everyone has been really usefull, and I do give you the credit to say "I told you so" if I post a question asking for money to buy bread and water 10 years from now. Thank you all.
 
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Reply #28 - Jun 29th, 2009 at 6:55pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Just food for thought.. an aspiring airline pilot might want to research the effects that the current administration's energy policies will have on his future..

(I'll give ya a hint.. it aint good)
 
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Reply #29 - Jun 30th, 2009 at 12:07am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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Jersey Flyer wrote on Jun 29th, 2009 at 4:41pm:
I will never fully understand what its like to live on a Pilot's Salary untill I actually LIVE on it


Whats the difference between a professional pilot and a pizza?
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a pizza can feed a family of four.  Embarrassed

here is a sample budget.

Monthly Rent: $650
Monthly Electric: $100
Monthly Fuel: $180
Monthly Car payment: $330
Monthly Insurance: $100
Monthly Groceries (single guy): $180
Misc expenses: $200

Total Monthly Expenses: $1,740.00

Monthly income: $1791.66

Difference: +$51.66 (better be REALLY frugal)

***average for a regional airline pilot for the first 3 - 5 years

what most guys do to reduce living expenses - get a "crash pad" with 7 or 8 other pilots. sometimes you will be the only one there... other times you will be there with all 8 - but hey - your rent is only like $80!!  Cheesy
 
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Reply #30 - Jul 9th, 2009 at 8:14pm

GreaseMonkey   Offline
Colonel
Afterrrburnnerrrrsss
s!
Manchester, England

Gender: male
Posts: 179
*****
 
Hey  Smiley

Im also 16, and have just left high school with more than require education. I just started my flying lessons on a C152, its truly amazing once you get into and really no matter what dont let anything dampen your dreams. Ive always wanted to be a pilot, since 8 years old, nothing can stop me, not even money. Ive done a lot of research and people are right, you dont need to even have aviation related qualifications anymore  Shocked kinda silly. But if you have that passion for flying that we probably all share and want, you wont give up no matter how big and steep the obstacle is. I wont. Perhaps maybe ill see you in the skies one day  Wink

Greasemonkey.
 

650W
Windows 7 Ultimate
4870 1GB
4GB Ram
3.15GHz x 2
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Reply #31 - Jul 15th, 2009 at 7:01pm

Jersey Flyer   Offline
Colonel
New Jerseys where its
at.
Newark, New jersey

Gender: male
Posts: 212
*****
 
GreaseMonkey wrote on Jul 9th, 2009 at 8:14pm:
Hey  Smiley

Im also 16, and have just left high school with more than require education. I just started my flying lessons on a C152, its truly amazing once you get into and really no matter what dont let anything dampen your dreams. Ive always wanted to be a pilot, since 8 years old, nothing can stop me, not even money. Ive done a lot of research and people are right, you dont need to even have aviation related qualifications anymore  Shocked kinda silly. But if you have that passion for flying that we probably all share and want, you wont give up no matter how big and steep the obstacle is. I wont. Perhaps maybe ill see you in the skies one day  Wink

Greasemonkey.


God Speed.  Grin
 
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