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F1 Predictions: Spain (Read 1612 times)
May 4th, 2009 at 5:23pm
CD.   Ex Member

 
The first European race of the season and traditionally the first race where development parts are used for the first time.. which makes it interesting this year. Who'll have the advantage now most of the field will have the Brawn/Williams/Toyota diffuser?

ENTRIES CLOSE 1200 BST SATURDAY

Good luck lads!
 
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Reply #1 - May 4th, 2009 at 5:23pm
CD.   Ex Member

 
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Reply #2 - May 4th, 2009 at 5:26pm

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Reply #3 - May 4th, 2009 at 5:37pm

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...what? Same as Rob's predictions? Never mind Cheesy
 

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Reply #4 - May 4th, 2009 at 5:56pm

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No way am I touching this without practice. This is the start of the season as far as I am concerned.
Ferrari, BMW, Mclaren and Renault all bringing major updates/new cars. Brawn and toyota also bringing updates.
Those quickest here will I can only think will show it for the rest of the season.
 
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Reply #5 - May 6th, 2009 at 7:19am

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classic spainish gps up on the bbc red button.
1981: chance to see some classic cars in action, extended highlights in this one.
1991: Perhaps one of the most iconic moments in F1, senna and Mansell on wet tyres on a dry track, wheel to wheel spraks flying down the main straight.
1996: One of the greatest drives in the wet ever from Schumacher, over 3 seconds a lap faster than anyone.
1997: I still have no idea how it got through but watch Jacques Villeneuve run off with this one lol

EDIT:  1986 also included.
 
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Reply #6 - May 8th, 2009 at 10:56am

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Jenson
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Reply #7 - May 8th, 2009 at 11:47am
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Reply #8 - May 8th, 2009 at 12:09pm

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Reply #9 - May 8th, 2009 at 12:15pm

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Reply #10 - May 8th, 2009 at 3:30pm

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Reply #11 - May 8th, 2009 at 3:58pm

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As a side note, the cars are faster this year in free practice than they were last year.
So we've ended up with pig ugly cars for nothing.
 
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Reply #12 - May 8th, 2009 at 5:15pm

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Almost completely forgot about this one  Embarrassed

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Reply #13 - May 9th, 2009 at 4:42am

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Reply #14 - May 9th, 2009 at 5:38am

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Reply #15 - May 9th, 2009 at 10:22am

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I wont lie. I am very happy with that quali result.
Ferrari are nearly there. They have the next big update in Turkey which will be the proper diffusor. The new updates have brought them from about 8 tenths to a full second behind, to now about 2 tenths down so its a huge jump.
Too bad the pit wall still havent learned. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #16 - May 9th, 2009 at 10:46am

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Craig. wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 10:22am:
Ferrari are nearly there. They have the next big update in Turkey which will be the proper diffusor.

I appreciate that the smaller teams will struggle to make changes following the diffuser ruling, but surely a team with as much experience, resources & budget as Ferrari should be capable of wheeling out a decent diffuser quicker than that?
 

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Reply #17 - May 9th, 2009 at 11:00am

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Not really. Because it has required a whole new car in essence. Not only that its two new cars because Kimi has a car that is several Kg's lighter in the chassis than the car Massa is using. They couldn't get two tubs ready for spain and Massa doesn't need the lighter car, so they had to make him a new car using the old tub to get him the new updates. To get the new diffuser on the car, they have had to make a new gear box, rear suspension, smaller rear end packaging for the engine, they're already working at such a pace that the cars and parts are now being introduced upto 50% quicker than before. So they've done a brilliant job of getting a brand new car on track and near the front in 8 weeks.
Just look at Mclaren and Renault, they were both testing the double diffusor back in pre-season testing, introduced it as soon as the FIA declared it legal, and have not made any progress forward. I think Ferrari and Red Bull have decided they wont be just throwing things on the car until they are as certain as they can be that'll work.
Red Bull have the hardest job of the lot. As always Newey has chosen a very complex and difficult suspension setup in the rear using a pullrod system instead of the pushrod suspension everyone else uses. Because of that, red bull need to completely redesign the rear end to accomodate the new floor/diffusor and to keep the suspension they have now. They are expecting it to be Turkey before even considering running it.
No more inseason testing means the days of quickly throwing it on the  car and seeing if it works are gone. Some people like it, I personally think its a step backwards. Three inseason tests would have worked, that was the original plan for the year. Barcelona, Silverstone, Monza. So all the money in the world means nothing now if your wind tunnel doesn't get it right. See Mclaren/BMW.
 
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Reply #18 - May 9th, 2009 at 12:02pm

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Makes a lot of sense Craig. To be honest I hadn't wasted a lot of time thinking about it, but now that you've pointed it out, it's obvious that it requires more than just whacking a diffuser on with sellotape.  Embarrassed
 

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Reply #19 - May 9th, 2009 at 12:29pm

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It varies a lot from car to car.  Those who built their cars to accomodate the chance that the diffusor would be legal Mclaren/Renault, Force India, have been able to do just that. Stick it on and get the benefits from it. The down sides for them are the cars in general are poor and compromised by that allowance in other areas. In both Renault and Mclarens case their rear suspension and rear wings are the areas that are letting them down and not providing the sort of grip and downforce they need to use the Double diffusor to its best.
 
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Reply #20 - May 9th, 2009 at 12:38pm

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Fuel weights are out.

01 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 683.0*
02 McLaren Mercedes Heikki Kovalainen 657.0*
03 Ferrari Felipe Massa 655.0
04 Ferrari Kimi Räikkönen 673.0*
05 BMW Sauber Robert Kubica 660.0
06 BMW Sauber Nick Heidfeld 676.3*
07 Renault Fernando Alonso 645.0
08 Renault Nelson Piquet 677.4*
09 Toyota Jarno Trulli 655.5
10 Toyota Timo Glock 646.5
11 STR Ferrari Sébastien Bourdais 669.0*
12 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 678.0*
14 RBR Renault Mark Webber 651.5
15 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 651.5
16 Williams Toyota Nico Rosberg 668.0
17 Williams Toyota Kazuki Nakajima 676.6*
20 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 675.0*
21 Force India Mercedes Giancarlo Fisichella 656.0*
22 Brawn Mercedes Jenson Button 646.0
23 Brawn Mercedes Rubens Barrichello 649.5

All I can say is, Brawn no longer are the quickest team. That goes to red bull. Vettel is in a good position. Massa could be looking at a win if he can use Kers to get him up to 2nd by turn 1. I'm not impressed by Jenson's time at all. Its going to be a long day for him tomorrow.
 
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Reply #21 - May 9th, 2009 at 2:44pm
CD.   Ex Member

 
Craig. wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 11:00am:
...Kimi has a car that is several Kg's lighter in the chassis than the car Massa is using..


Because he can't stay off the ice-cream..

Wink
 
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Reply #22 - May 9th, 2009 at 2:46pm

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And regular coke Cheesy
 
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Reply #23 - May 9th, 2009 at 6:06pm

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Fantastic, I've missed the predictions again.  Angry Roll Eyes

Never mind, there's always next time? Undecided Grin
 

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Reply #24 - May 10th, 2009 at 7:51am

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LMAO, Jordan gets dumber every week. "suspend Kimi, Schumacher could do a better job". The only reason he wants Schumi driving is so he can waffle on about how he gave him his first drive ignoring the fact Mercedes actually paid the teams budget for the Spa weekend Schumi drove for them.
 
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Reply #25 - May 10th, 2009 at 9:51am

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Reply #26 - May 10th, 2009 at 3:31pm

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Craig. wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
I'm not impressed by Jenson's time at all. Its going to be a long day for him tomorrow.


You were saying?



Could Rob Smedley have dropped Massa any more hints today. If he'd surrendered 4th place a few laps earlier he may have finished 5th. I was surprised they didn't tell him to let Vettel pass.
 
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Reply #27 - May 10th, 2009 at 3:41pm

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I'm sorry but there was an element of luck involved for Jenson today. Firstly the strategy switch for him but not Rubens, tough to say whether that was a team orders thing but either way it was clear that 3 stops wouldn't work after only 10 laps, to much traffic still no overtaking. Vettel getting held up behind Massa, There was a good chance Vettel could have won it. Jenson screwed the start and almost his race up and I do feel for Rubens, but thats racing. Jenson played the hand he was given perfectly and he got another win.
What got me was why Felipe didn't use his KERS at the start until he was in 6th gear and almost at the corner, the practice starts he'd been doing all had him engaging it at 4th gear. With it he could have been 2nd and maybe even first into turn 1. Again had he been in front of Jenson, holding him up and letting rubens run off.  I'm happy for Jenson, I really am, however this wasn't the easiest of races for him.

 
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Reply #28 - May 10th, 2009 at 6:06pm
CD.   Ex Member

 
Craig.

Get your head out of the sand and accept that Ferrari are crap this season.

Rob.

Wink  Grin
 
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Reply #29 - May 10th, 2009 at 6:15pm

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That would be the same ferrari who have gained 8 tenths in one update? Cheesy
Or I could be a Mclaren fan who gave up from the start and now their drivers are following suit in a rather public way.
I dont expect the title, I don't expect the constructors, but much like 2005 I refuse to give up the belief that they can cause problems for those who are in line for the title.

It's safe to say 3 more wins and the title is Jenson's, I would be happy for that, if ever there was a guy who had, so much bad luck and poor timing its him. However because of the way they are going about it, you have to look for more interesting battles further back. That basically means who's quickest to catch up. Wink

 
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Reply #30 - May 10th, 2009 at 7:16pm

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Craig. wrote on May 10th, 2009 at 6:15pm:
That would be the same ferrari who have gained 8 tenths in one update? Cheesy


But again managed to be incompetent with 50% of their cars in Q1, and then had the wee whoopsie (or lack of clear decision making from the edited radio transmissions we heard, but backed up with what we saw on the track) in dealing with the technical error during Massa's final stop. Seems that improvements coming from those in the deep dark crevices at Fiorano doing the dirty work, are being a bit let down by those at the sharp end. Shocked
 
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Reply #31 - May 10th, 2009 at 8:31pm

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Quote:
Craig.

Get your head out of the sand and accept that Ferrari are crap this season.

Rob.

Wink  Grin

Did you read my mind?  LOL Grin

I think Brawns wins are not because of pace or luck, but because of Brawns strategy.  Maybe thats why Ferrari suck?
 

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Reply #32 - May 11th, 2009 at 3:30am

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Craig. wrote on May 10th, 2009 at 3:41pm:
I'm sorry but there was an element of luck involved for Jenson today.


Sorry mate, but that seems to be your standard answer for any win that in not a certain colour. I do agree that luck plays a big part, bút come on, it is not the only card Brawn are playing. As you yourself said a few races back when the diffuser was getting everyone hot and bothered, that is not the whole picture. The diffuser was a small part of the complete Brawn package and that the other teams should be concentration on engine and aero as well. It has to be way more than luck that has put these two cars at the front since that start of the season  regardless what other teams do. On the other side, a bit of a public broadside from Hamilton about how crap the Mc is Shocked

Matt

« Last Edit: May 11th, 2009 at 11:12am by expat »  

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Reply #33 - May 11th, 2009 at 4:13am

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I also said that Button drove exactly how he had to in a difficult situation. Wink Thats meant in a good way, not a dismissive way.
I'm not saying the Brawn is a bad car either, obviously its not. But it's also Obvious that the Red Bull for instance has closed the gap and maybe even passed it for pace. Brawn can't rely on tactical brilliance alone to win races. If they want to keep winning they need to bring more and more updates to the car.
 
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