Simviation Forum - O&O Defrag V11 Defrag Time Question

Reply #15 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:03am

Webb Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

NickN wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 12:47am:

WebbPA wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 12:21am:

Fine.

Enjoy watching your computer do nothing for three hours.

At least you only have to do it every month or so.

oh please

its comments like this that tell me when people have no clue about how a computer and storage system works.

You are going to try and tell someone who worked with Raytheon on the Lunar Module computer and systems for the space shuttle how to do it better?

This is the internet. No one cares about the letters behind your name.

You probably haven't noticed but computer systems have changed since the 1969 Lunar Module computer.

It takes my computer less than a minute to defragment two hard drives. It takes yours three hours. That's what counts.

Welcome to 2009.

Why am I even in this idiotic discussion? All anyone has done is tell the original poster that it's normal to expect to take 3 hours to defragment a hard drive. So, fine, it takes 3 hours. I'm out.

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Reply #16 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:33am

jwenham Offline
Colonel
Clear to Land... Are you
sure?

Posts: 266

WebbPA wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:03am:

NickN wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 12:47am:

WebbPA wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 12:21am:

Fine.

Enjoy watching your computer do nothing for three hours.

At least you only have to do it every month or so.

oh please

its comments like this that tell me when people have no clue about how a computer and storage system works.

You are going to try and tell someone who worked with Raytheon on the Lunar Module computer and systems for the space shuttle how to do it better?

This is the internet. No one cares about the letters behind your name.

You probably haven't noticed but computer systems have changed since the 1969 Lunar Module computer.

It takes my computer less than a minute to defragment two hard drives. It takes yours three hours. That's what counts.

Welcome to 2009.

Why am I even in this idiotic discussion? All anyone has done is tell the original poster that it's normal to expect to take 3 hours to defragment a hard drive. So, fine, it takes 3 hours. I'm out.

I cant resist....

Man you are a FREEKIN IDIOT! Oh the Dumb Masses.

Intel i7 940 2.93 clocked to 4.0ghz Asus P6T Deluxe 6gb OCZ 1600 8-8-8-24 EVGA GTX 260 Superclocked Edition Thermalright 120 CPU Cooler Power PC & Cooling 750w PSU 1 tb Seagate Barracuda HD 500 gb Seagate Barracude HD 22" Viewsonic Widescreen Track IR 4 XP Pro x64 www.fairtax.org

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Reply #17 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:40am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

WebbPA wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:03am:

You probably haven't noticed but computer systems have changed since the 1969 Lunar Module computer.

It takes my computer less than a minute to defragment two hard drives. It takes yours three hours. That's what counts.

Welcome to 2009.

Why am I even in this idiotic discussion? .

my last project before retiring is located here:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/

My part of the project was successfully tested and I turned over my division to the next generation who I am most glad to say are sharp, well educated, thoughtful in consideration of concept and idea, and, who are not present or represented in our conversation as the next generation of experts.

Yes, the term 'idiotic' does fit in this case along with an entire slew of other terms

and I am also quite finished in this thread.

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Reply #18 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 1:47am

Webb Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

Please continue to feel superior as you watch your computers do nothing for three hours once a month every month.

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Reply #19 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 8:19am

idahosurge Offline
Colonel
I Fly Sim!
Anna, Texas, USA

Gender:
Posts: 687

NickN wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 1:34pm:

You are discovering ONE of the major reasons why I tell people to NOT install MSFS into the OS

Your OS drive is CONSTANTLY writing data to the drive which changes the NAME layout

1 file changed and it starts from the beginning.

Your OS only need be cleaned and defragged about once every 3 months ...once a month if you install a bunch of programs or do a lot of work with installed applications.

The MSFS drive will remain very clean and does not expand and contract with OS writes and therefore it remains in order unless you install a good size addon. If you do not install anything and do not constantly make changes to MSFS through addons that send textures/files to MSFS then that drive should remain defragmented pretty much forever.

So Nick, are you saying that even though the only thing that I do between a defrag on my OS drive is that I reboot, the OS defrag starts from scratch because files were rewritten in the reboot process and this is just the way that it works. If this is the answer then I am fine with that, I was just wondering why.

Rod

Asus R3E_i7 980X @ 4.44GHz_TR Silver Arrow_Mushkin Redline 6GB 1,644MHz @ 6-7-6-18_Zotac AMP GTX 480_OS - Windows 7 Ult 64b_OS SSD - Crucial C300 128GB_FSX HD - WD VR 600GB*2 w/3ware 9750-4i 6Gb/s Controller_Corsair AX850_CM HAF-X_FSX Gold, UTX, GEX, FSG, ST, MSX, MSE, FTX, FEX, FSWC, MTX, STB, AS F16, PMDG MD11, CS MD80 Pro, FSD P38, VRS FA18E

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Reply #20 - May 3^rd, 2009 at 12:07pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

idahosurge wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 8:19am:

NickN wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 1:34pm:

You are discovering ONE of the major reasons why I tell people to NOT install MSFS into the OS

Your OS drive is CONSTANTLY writing data to the drive which changes the NAME layout

1 file changed and it starts from the beginning.

Your OS only need be cleaned and defragged about once every 3 months ...once a month if you install a bunch of programs or do a lot of work with installed applications.

The MSFS drive will remain very clean and does not expand and contract with OS writes and therefore it remains in order unless you install a good size addon. If you do not install anything and do not constantly make changes to MSFS through addons that send textures/files to MSFS then that drive should remain defragmented pretty much forever.

So Nick, are you saying that even though the only thing that I do between a defrag on my OS drive is that I reboot, the OS defrag starts from scratch because files were rewritten in the reboot process and this is just the way that it works. If this is the answer then I am fine with that, I was just wondering why.

Rod

Yes Rod

that is correct.

Each time your system reboots it is writing files to the hard drive, both on shut down and again on restart.

It is also writing to the MFT constantly as you use your computer. The MFT is defragmented in both the online and offline process. During the offline defrag the MFT may be moved or reordered. During the online NAME defrag the catalog is also alphanumerically ordered as well as the files on the drive. That process significantly reduces the time it requires the head to seek between the MFT catalog and the files. Every operation has a MFT and file read (and sometimes write) to it. So that means changes take place as we use our system even if we do not delete or move any file on the OS drive.

Also, if you followed my list then every 3 days the system is automatically writing a file which Windows uses for prefetch and O&O will use to optimize the system boot by placing the files listed in it at the beginning of the physical platter in name order.

So the combination of the two and a 'name' defrag will restart the process from the beginning of the drive. Since you are using O&O v11 you can alternately run a SPACE defrag between your monthly/bimonthly NAME defrags. The SPACE defrag will complete in a matter of minutes and will suffice between the longer 'high performance' maintenance defrag passes.

Single drive systems will usually take longer to correctly defag than multi drive systems but that is also defined by the amount of data the drives hold, if they are OS or simply used for storage/application

If you place backups and install very large performance applications like MSFS on their own drives, the amount of fragmentation that occurs is significantly reduced and if drives outside the OS are formatted to 64K that will further reduce fragmentation and maintenance time.

« Last Edit: May 3^rd, 2009 at 2:44pm by NickN »

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Reply #21 - May 10^th, 2009 at 2:32pm

JHA Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Posts: 27

Interesting read, thanks...

I'm a bit confused about the terms "drive" and "partition" (English is not my native language...)

If I may quote from another forum:

Quote:

"And Be aware.. use of another partition on the same drive as the OS is a NO NO!

FSX to its own drive!

If you absolutely must partition your OS or FSX drive make SURE the OS and FSX are on the FIRST PHYSICAL PARTITION of those drives, AND, make sure that after everything is installed there is AT LEAST 50% freespace left so leave room to add. More freespace is better than less! Once you hit 40-30%% its all downhill from there on storage performance

I suggest NO partitions if possible however I know that can be difficult for some so make sure the OS and FSX are located on the first physical partition of each drive and have enough free space left in those partitions."

Unquote

I reinstalled my OS on Local Disk C - together with FSX, because of the advise mentioned above...

The C disk is at 270 G, I have a D disk at 100 G, and a E disk at 100 G as a storage place...

My questions:

Is this 1 or 3 harddrives, or is it 3 partitions and 1 drive???

Stupid question maybe, BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW!

Any suggestions? Put FSX back on D where it came from???

BTW - I've experienced that O & O v 11 after a couple of defrags simply won't start again, (not possible to start from services, "no path"...) and I had to reinstall again...

Still running FSX with my 1.8 AMD CPU... 30-35 FPS with sliders 3/4 when on the D:drive... Not bad, must be Nick's advise which I've followed from A to Z! Thanks...

JHA

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Reply #22 - May 11^th, 2009 at 2:41am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

DRIVE is a physical disk unit

PARTITION is what must be placed on ANY physical drive for Windows to read it.

You can have one partition on each physical drive and it will appear in Windows as different drives

HOWEVER

A single DRIVE can have MANY partitions and appear in Windows like many physical drives.. In this case they are NOT!

So if you have one physical hard drive (black box with power and data cables going to it) and 3 show up in Windows that is 3 partitions on one drive

Placing FSX or any application on a 2nd partition is a NO NO!

Drive 1 - Partition 1 = OS

Drive 2 - Partition 1 = FSX

If you want storage you can make partitions and place storage behind the OS or FSX.. I would however try to use the OS physical drive for that and not the FSX drive

Drive 1 - Partition 1 = OS
Partition 2 = Storage

Drive 2 - Partition 1 = FSX

If you wish to use both FSX and FS9 install them in folders (with their own names) to the root of Drive 2 and do not use partitions

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Reply #23 - May 11^th, 2009 at 3:05am

JHA Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Posts: 27

Hi, thanks for quick reply...

Yes, it's one harddisk (475 G) - with 3 partitions then.

I'll go ahead an install like you recommend.

Don't have the bucks for a new machine yet Sad

JHA

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