RacingLad wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 11:04pm:


What is your CPU? We really need more info to help.

RacingLad wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 11:04pm:


There's no question the 9800 GTX would provide a significant performance boost.  How much are you looking to invest in your upgrade?  Have you considered anything like ATI 4870?or Nvidia GTX 260/ 280?  Different cards will produce different results depending on the video game.  Therefore you should take into consideration what other games (besides FS 2004) you play or plan on installing before your purchase.

By the way, I see nothing "sad" about your current setup.  Perhaps you might be alluding to your CPU in which case I would agree.  You have a core duo processor?  If you want to spend the least amount of money on your CPU, I would recommend getting a core 2 duo which is the 2nd iteration of Intel's dual core CPUs.  It is much better in terms of power consumption management and a better value compared to the core duo CPUs.

RacingLad wrote on Apr 26^th, 2009 at 11:04pm:






You may be asking about FSX in which it requires a correctly spec'd video card for the CPU and memory subsystem in use.

In that throwing a large video card at a slower system in FSX will provide some increase however it will very rarely provide 'huge' boosts.

Since in your case you are already using a very slow video adapter to begin with you will see better results than someone coming from a better card, that is true.

I would however be cautious about placing a PCIe 2.0 card in a PCIe 1.0a slot...

http://eudownload.ecs.com.tw/dlfilepcc/menu/P17Gv10.pdf

PCIEX16
Slot
The PCIEX16 is used to install an external PCI Express graphics card
that is fully compliant to the PCI Express Base Specification revision
1.0a.


With the 1.0a standard it can be hit and miss if a PCIe 2.0 card will work based on the motherboard design and BIOS installed. Usually they will work but there are issues that may come up regardless.  

With the 1.1 standard there is less issue and it should work fine however the higher functions of the card will not be available in either 1a or 1.1 platforms. With 1.0a it is more problematical. If the card does boot in the system there can be further drawbacks to performance since the 2.0 card and 1.0(a) slot are very mismatched even with backwards compat in 2.0.

The motherboard manufacture drives the success with that. With the motherboard in question I do not know how it may work/not work. It is a 945GC chipset which I need to research to see if it has been reported to be a problem. I do want you to be aware of the tech and the possible issues that may arise.

Do note that it is a fact that regardless of if the card works or not, with the x16 1.0a slot protocol present if there is another PCIe card in the system, introduction of a 2.0 card will reduce the x16 slot to x8 and sometimes x4 depending on platform of the other PCIe card. It does not matter if the other card is a video card or other. This is one of the major drawbacks to using a 2.0 in a 1.0a system. The 1.1 standard would only see this if another video card were in use (2 video cards)

And a 260/280 card would be a huge waste of money in your system for FSX. You are CPU and memory bound and those would be more card than the system could ever take advantage of.

There are 2 types of bottlenecks. A system with MORE CPU/memspeed than they have video card (sort of your current situation) and a system that has MORE video card than they have CPU/memspeed...(what you may end up doing and not realize it).. in both cases the SAME perf issues can be seen with FSX.

Along with suggesting a card we need to make sure you have a PSU that will drive a suggested card. Could you please post the PSU in use.. a link to the product or post all the information on the sticker from the PSU.

We can go from there.

I am letting you know all this up front so you don’t end up flipping a bill and being disappointed.





EDIT: I see now you are running FSX..

Please post you PSU. The 9800GTX may be the better choice for you however I do wish to confirm the PSU will run it. ATi is out of the question for FSX.. Crysis yes, FSX no

ANSWER FROM NICK AS HE CAN'T LOG IN AT THE MOMENT

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I am not at home and can not log onto the forums so I asked Dave to post this for me


Yes, PSU means Power Supply Unit. Unfortunately your PSU is not powerful enough to run any modern video card and will need to be replaced with at the very least a 550watt unit to install a new video card like a 9800GTX


To keep your price low I am going to suggest the recertified EVGA model

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130432


New would cost more but it also comes with a higher clock and a rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130456


For a power supply my concern is it fitting the tower. If this is an OEM computer a typical design supply may not fit however if it is a standard size then you should have no problem.

This unit comes with a rebate and is 75 dollars with that rebate

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004


This unit is 80 dollars with a rebate and is more powerfull.. I suggest it over the first one as the manufacture is the best in the business

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005


I did not have a chance to look up the chipset and how the PCIe 2.0 standard would run with it. Do be aware that most likely the video card will work however there is a possibility it may not.

Good Luck.
Nick
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ANSWER FROM NICK AS HE CAN'T LOG IN AT THE MOMENT

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I dont want to keep bothering Dave but I wanted to post this to you.. and everyone else about PSUs and they one you are looking at

I want you to read this carefully.. I posted it with very easy to understand terms and calculations so you and everyone else understands how PSU shopping should be done.

Your Pixxo
http://www.pixxo.com.tw/WebForms/ProductView.aspx?id=193

Its either 500/580 or 650

If it IS a 550 then it may be one of their older units and that may be WORSE! I am going to ASSUME it’s the 580 and not a 550 for4 this.

This is a GENERIC PSU company and they make cheap PSU’s for other companies as well.

Let me show you something and you will see why what you are about to do is a big mistake!

First of all, it is a MULTI RAIL supply.. meaning you do not get 100% of the amps available on the unit. Just because it says 580 does not mean 580 will be delivered.

Lets look at this very simply and from here on out you will know what to look for.
If you have no choice and you must buy a cheap multi-rail PSU you must first look at the amount of power your system needs. For this you are looking at a 9800GTX and that does NOT include the system itself, just the video card.

The 9800GTX needs a MINIMUM of 24A of power. You should ALWAYS try to go 25% higher on the power needs to make sure

A: As the PSU gets older its current DROPS. Over a 1-2 year period if its cheap you can expect a 10% loss, easy with another 5% loss for HEAT

B: As the PSU gets HOT the current drops. With a cheap PSU that means another % of loss as it heats up. Therefore the 25% HIGHER in power takes that into account
Now.. for the Pixxo 580 unit you have 12v+ RAILS that are rated for 15A each. Is that really 15A?   NO!

Look at the EFFICIENCY RATING - And do NOT ASSUME the HIGH RATING of 85%... at FULL LOAD you get a MAX of 80% and with a CHEAP SUPPLY the HEAT and TIME will drop that further!

So we have a video card that needs 24A

We have a PSU that has 15A on 2 12v plugs that = 30A  Sounds good right?

30A MINUS 80% FULL LOAD = 24A THE MINIMUM THE CARD NEEDS

Take another 10% for TIME and ‘possibly’ another 5% for cheap component HEAT and guess what, you have 19.5A = (30A x 65%) with a video card running HOT and CRASHING due to LOW CURRENT and you have a PSU running HOT and dropping even MORE power to the rest of the system!

At first you may not see the damage and the issue but as the supply runs over time you are 3A TOO LOW for the card

And the rest of the computer is starved for current as well

So is that 30 dollar supply worth it in this system?

NO!
Even their 650 watt supply is JUST BARELY ENOUGH!
It has 12v+ 18A x 2 = 36A x 65% (includes time) = 23.4A - just BARELY enough!

So you can see now what you are paying for.

The supplies that I picked are SINGLE RAIL. That means not matter what the 12v will always be a constant on the line. It too must be calculated the same way however the manufactures post specs for their EFF CURVE in which they will NOT lose as much current over HEAT, LOAD and TIME.

Corsair 550
http://www.corsair.com/_images/charts/vx550w_efficiency.jpg

81% EFF at 100% load. 41A 12v+ = 33.21 – TIME/HEAT = 27.06A   GOOD!
However you would not be able to add much of anything else to the system!

The reason I suggested the PC Power and cooling PSU is because it will allow not only the right amount of power, the overhead, quieter but also allow you to use it in the future to add more to your system or to transfer it to a new tower…


PC P&C 610
http://www.pcpower.com/downloads/610_new_5yr%20warranty_lr_3825.pdf

This unit has better components than the Corsair and will run cooler @ 100% load (less or NO heat loss) estimate perhaps 1-2% for heat MAX and their electronic design means only a 5% loss over time for a total of 7% less than the Efficiency Rating.

+12V @ 49A - 83% EFF = 40.67A (minus) TIME/HEAT = 37.24A   EXCELLENT!
That UNIT is Premium.. it will run that rig and then some.. you probably wont even hear the PSU running

You get what you pay for if you know how to look for it.. The PC Power and Cooling PSU is the best deal for the price.

With PCP&C

You get 90.9% MORE PSU than the Pixxo 580

You get 37.6% MORE PSU than the Corsair 550 (even though it is a single rail)

You GET what you pay for  


If you go with that cheap Pixxo PSU you will be sorry.. perhaps not right away but within a year, no doubt about it.


Thanks
Nick

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Post the website for where you can buy and I will look and see what they have

The supply you posted does not have any efficiency spec and that is a very huge red flag. If you do not see that specification the PSU company is most likely hiding something

Languages are no problem


Price is though.


I cant find anything there in the price range you are after that will do the job with any real efficiency and be sure of result over time however this one is a borderline PSU that for the price will probably be your only shot

NZXT
http://www.nzxt.com/products/pp600/

http://www.pcenlinea.com/mp/60541.html

78% EFF - 21A and 22A 12v rails but @ 78% = 33.5A - TIME/HEAT =  27A

Its not a single rail supply and as such I really need to see where they are getting system power from. Assuming it is designed well and will not pull down the current on the main system rail too much, that should do it (although by the skin of its teeth) and its not the modular cable system so that works in its benefit

After running the spec numbers I see its really only a 583watt PSU but they use the 'SPIKE" or "PEAK" value to sell it as a 600 which is a marketing lie

Notice the PC Power and Cooling 610 (link above) is a PEAK 690watt unit.. They dont lie to you about the power ability and call it a 610 because it is duty rated to run 610watts without fault


I cant vouch for the manufacture or the unit. I have never used one. They are known for their towers but not PSUs so they most likely have them made for them from another company.