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PSU buzzing, tweeting and trying to sing (Read 908 times)
Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:10am

Wingo   Offline
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Tonight while starting up a game my PSU started to let out a high pitched, almost tweeting noise. It only happens while the GPU is under load, loading the CPU doesn't produce this effect. I've tried to spray it with compressed air but it doens't seem to have much effect bar changing it from a tweet to more of a crackle like elctrical wires while it is raining. I'm hopinh I don't have to RMA it, would there be anything I could try before sending it off?
 

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Reply #1 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:33pm

Fozzer   Offline
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(a) Mice?

(b) Budgerigar?

(c) Cooling fan(s) bearings running short of lubricating oil?

I often have to lubricate the bearings on all my fans from time to time, to stop them squeaking, and slowing down!

Paul..G-BPLF...FS 2004...
 

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Reply #2 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:35pm

NickN   Offline
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You sure you are not hearing the Nvidia card?

Nvidia cards have a feature that sends out a high pitch alarm when they are not getting the power to them from the PSU...

 
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Reply #3 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:36pm

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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That's a filter  Shocked a capacitor or a small link of one of the Doiodes or transistor What you might be hear is the 50-60 Hz of the AC power that comes from the normal electricity supply and something is vibrating because something stop working can be a zener diode too, If you don't want to Buy again HDD ,CPU, RAM, motherboard etc ,I suggest you to get a new one quicky..  
 
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Reply #4 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:32pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:36pm:
That's a filter  Shocked a capacitor  


Alrot,

That was my first thought....main filter capacitor....... classic symptom in a PS.

When that goes all the way....... it could take the "whole machine" with it.

best,

....................john
 

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Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 9:54am

Wingo   Offline
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NickN wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:35pm:
You sure you are not hearing the Nvidia card?

Nvidia cards have a feature that sends out a high pitch alarm when they are not getting the power to them from the PSU...



Nope, it isn't the card. The sound is definately coming from the PSU. The sound and pitch changes, from a whine to a buzz and the light for the card is still indicating green.

Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:36pm:
That's a filter  Shocked a capacitor or a small link of one of the Doiodes or transistor What you might be hear is the 50-60 Hz of the AC power that comes from the normal electricity supply and something is vibrating because something stop working can be a zener diode too, If you don't want to Buy again HDD ,CPU, RAM, motherboard etc ,I suggest you to get a new one quicky.. 



JBaymore wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 7:32pm:
Alrot,

That was my first thought....main filter capacitor....... classic symptom in a PS.

When that goes all the way....... it could take the "whole machine" with it.

best,

....................john


By the worried inflections i'm putting into your words I'm assuming a possible warranty replacement is on the cards? Am I only in danger while i'm hearing the sounds coming from it or am in danger at any time th system is on?
 

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Reply #6 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 11:27am

NickN   Offline
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If you have confirmed the noise is indeed coming from the PSU then the concerns expressed are very valid

Typically the type of noise described coming from a PSU is as Alex and John said and if it goes, it has the potential to take out everything in the system at the same time.

If it were me I would not use the system and get it replaced ASAP



 
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Reply #7 - Apr 18th, 2009 at 10:50am

Wingo   Offline
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OK I'l try to get onto warranty for it. Would anyone happen to know the warranty process for OCZ in Australia? There is nothing on their site and I really don't want to go through the retailer again after the debacle with my motherboard.
 

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Reply #8 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 2:34am

Wingo   Offline
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I've decided to leave this PSU and move onto a corsair Tx-850 http://corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx It's single rail, 850w and non-modular. It is the only single rail PSU I can find in any of the retailers in my area. It seems that no one stocks PC Power & Cooling products in Australia except the online stores. Once it gets in I'm going to send my current one off for warranty with the usless mob I got it off and either hock it on eBay or keep it as a spare.
 

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Reply #9 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 12:50pm

NickN   Offline
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Sounds like a plan!
 
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Reply #10 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 5:29pm

Maverick6901   Offline
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Wingo wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 2:34am:
I've decided to leave this PSU and move onto a corsair Tx-850 http://corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx It's single rail, 850w and non-modular. It is the only single rail PSU I can find in any of the retailers in my area. It seems that no one stocks PC Power & Cooling products in Australia except the online stores. Once it gets in I'm going to send my current one off for warranty with the usless mob I got it off and either hock it on eBay or keep it as a spare.


There isn't much of a point in keeping a defective (or dying) PSU around as a "spare" - is there?  Whatever secondary computer you put it in, you're risking the longevity of the computer and more grief.

Personally, I have no fondness for Corsair brand for PSUs.  (Except when buying memory of course).  I've built several computers using Antec and Thermaltake.  Antec is by far one of the best out there.
 
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Reply #11 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:08pm

Wingo   Offline
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Maverick6901 wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 5:29pm:
There isn't much of a point in keeping a defective (or dying) PSU around as a "spare" - is there?  Whatever secondary computer you put it in, you're risking the longevity of the computer and more grief.

Personally, I have no fondness for Corsair brand for PSUs.  (Except when buying memory of course).  I've built several computers using Antec and Thermaltake.  Antec is by far one of the best out there.

I'm sending the old PSU off for warranty once I get my new one tomorrow. When it comes back all nice and new and fixed, then I'll keep it as a spare or hock it. I ahve heard good things about Antec and Thermaltake but I couldn't get a PSU from either brand that was non-modular and single rail in 850w.
 

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Reply #12 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:25pm

Maverick6901   Offline
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Wingo wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:08pm:
I'm sending the old PSU off for warranty once I get my new one tomorrow. When it comes back all nice and new and fixed, then I'll keep it as a spare or hock it. I ahve heard good things about Antec and Thermaltake but I couldn't get a PSU from either brand that was non-modular and single rail in 850w.


OK, I understand now.  Regarding your requirements for the new PSU, any reason why you had to have a single rail only?
 
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Reply #13 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:46pm

NickN   Offline
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Maverick6901 wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:25pm:
OK, I understand now.  Regarding your requirements for the new PSU, any reason why you had to have a single rail only?



He knows the difference between the silly marketing game of mult-rail and the full efficiency and power availability of a single

For years other PSU companies besides PC Power and Cooling/Silverstone would not budge on that. Made up all sorts of marketing bull to convince people there was nothing wrong with multi-rail and even said there was no reason for single

… all of a sudden in the last year they start producing single rail PSU’s

I wonder why



 
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Reply #14 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 11:11pm

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So.... Nick... a 36A single rail PSU is better than a 18A two-rail one? or is it the same?

I was confused with that some weeks ago, when trying to buy a PSU...
 

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Reply #15 - Apr 22nd, 2009 at 1:17am

NickN   Offline
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Alonso wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 11:11pm:
So.... Nick... a 36A single rail PSU is better than a 18A two-rail one? or is it the same?

I was confused with that some weeks ago, when trying to buy a PSU...



Use your head..

you would never buy a 36A single rail PSU for a video card that needs almost all of it because there is MORE NEEDED than just the video card... for the 2 RAILS its worse

However lets ASSUME you need 26A on that.. you use 2 rails at 18A to get it.. guess what, you are stuck because you CAN NOT have whats left over elsewhere.. you lose the use of 10A

Single rail means 26A goes to the job and the other 10 is available!

PSU selection is based on the total system need for each primary output

12v

3.3v

5v

VSB

You spec a PSU with 25% more power than you actually need so as components start to age they are covered and at the same time if you add something to a system you have all the power you need.. and then there is the THERMAL issue.. a 25% over spec'd PSU is going to run QUIET and COOL

you get what you pay for

If one is running a decent typical system and not clocking a 610watt PC Power and Cooling using will do just fine

If a Quad core and clocking is desired a PC Power and Cooling 750 is perfect

If one wishes a dual video card and clocking that must go up.. the PC Power and Cooling 850-1000 are needed depending on the cards and their needs


all are single rail PSUs and all will last for years.. I still have 2 PC P&C units from 1999 and 2001

a FULL LOAD efficiency rating of 82% or GREATER is what you look for with a single rail




« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2009 at 9:30am by NickN »  
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Reply #16 - Apr 24th, 2009 at 9:53am

Wingo   Offline
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The new PSU arrived today and I must say it is impressive. It runs quieter than my old one and the fan spins a lot slower. There was a problem with my wireless keyboard when I first started it up, but I don't know if it was coincidence or not.
 

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Reply #17 - Apr 24th, 2009 at 4:23pm

Maverick6901   Offline
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NickN wrote on Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:46pm:
He knows the difference between the silly marketing game of mult-rail and the full efficiency and power availability of a single

For years other PSU companies besides PC Power and Cooling/Silverstone would not budge on that. Made up all sorts of marketing bull to convince people there was nothing wrong with multi-rail and even said there was no reason for single

… all of a sudden in the last year they start producing single rail PSU’s

I wonder why


I would agree that there is some "marketing hype" terminology when it comes to multi-rail PSU models. The vast majority of the population will go with what they've seen in ads or commercials and never bother to some research themselves.  It happens quite frequently with technology related products.  However, I wouldn't discount multi-rail models based on that fact as there are some advantages that multi-rail models have over single-rail.  (I have no bias towards either form actually.)  But to say that all single-rails are more efficient than multi-rails is sort of like saying all V6 engines are less efficient than V4.  Less efficient at doing what? A V6 engine truck is more efficient at towing and carrying heavy objects compared to a mid-sized V4 engine sedan.  If you try doing so with the latter, you will put more stress on the engine and burn more fuel.  Perhaps you don't like that anaology but to me it all depends on the person's usage of their computer and hardware setup.  Just my 2c.
 
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Reply #18 - Apr 24th, 2009 at 6:28pm

NickN   Offline
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You are not dealing with a engine/transmission. You can not use the remaining current from a individual rail that is being used (or not being used) and place it toward another rail.

In a single rail PSU all points have full access to the efficiency rated output of the single rail of the supply if/as it is available.


Your analogy makes no sense. It’s based on a mechanical frame of mind and has absolutely no relation to electrical/electronic engineering

if anything the analogy of a engine/transmission is better suited FOR a single rail supply


I can list quite a few issues with multirail PSUs. The better manufactures were very good at -hiding- them over the years.
 
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Reply #19 - Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:53pm

Maverick6901   Offline
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NickN wrote on Apr 24th, 2009 at 6:28pm:
Your analogy makes no sense. It’s based on a mechanical frame of mind and has absolutely no relation to electrical/electronic engineering

if anything the analogy of a engine/transmission is better suited FOR a single rail supply


I can list quite a few issues with multirail PSUs. The better manufactures were very good at -hiding- them over the years.



The analogy that I gave above may not be to your liking as I predicted.  I used the V6/V4 engine comparison to make a simple point.  You may have a personal distaste for multi-rail PSUs citing its drawbacks, as if to say single-rails are superior in every way is an opinion and an opinion only.  Just like how I can praise the merits of a V6 engine heavy duty truck and say how EVERYONE should be buying V6 trucks makes absolutely no sense.  Our personal usage of vehicles can vary person to person; so can our usage of PCs and our hardware setup.

Now I can tell you're an interesting fellow Nick. I have no desire to get into a verbal pissing match to debate the pros and cons of multirail versus single rail - there are far more important things in life to get railed up about. No pun intended.  You're free to post as you will.  I have no desire to drag this continually with a person who is already dead set on his opinion. Have a good nite.
 
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Reply #20 - Apr 25th, 2009 at 8:47am

Wingo   Offline
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There is no contest between single and multi rail PSUs. If you look on the side of the box you see where the power for each rail goes.

For example, from my previous PSU

12V1 - CPU1/CPU2
12V2 - PCIE3-4
12V3 - M/B, accessories
12V4 - PCIE1-2

All have a max of 20 amps

Now lets say we have a high end SLI set up. We'll say that 12V1 is only supplying 10 amps with another 10 is spare and 12V3 is supplying another 10 with 10 spare. We have two GTX280 in an SLI set up, which needs a 6 and 8 pin connector on each card. A GTX280 takes about 23 amps each to power. So we connect the two GPUs to the PSU. We place the first on the 12V2 rail, and the second on the 12V4 rail. These can only supply 20 amps each, so they can't power the cards at all. Now, we have an extra 20 amps spare on the other rails, but we can't use that 20 amps because the amps aren't on the two rails the GPUs are using. The power is there, but it might as well be on Mars for all the two GPUs care.

Now with this exact same set up but a single rail PSU then we have 80amps available on one 12V rail. All devices from above can access the amperage they need with an extra 20 amps spare so that if we connect anything else or upgrade the power is available.

I hope this example demonstrates you can't compare it to a V4 or V6 engine. Comparing a V4 to V6 engine is like comparing a 850 watt unit to a 1000 watt unit. Comparing a multi-rail PSU to a single rail really doesn't have a real world mechanical comparison. The closest I can come to is saying a multi rail PSU is like a singe engine driving each wheel via its own transmission system, and if one wheel needs more power it can't get it from the unused power on the other transmissions. As i said, not a real world example but it is one at least.
 

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Reply #21 - Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:15am

NickN   Offline
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Maverick6901 wrote on Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:53pm:
NickN wrote on Apr 24th, 2009 at 6:28pm:
Your analogy makes no sense. It’s based on a mechanical frame of mind and has absolutely no relation to electrical/electronic engineering

if anything the analogy of a engine/transmission is better suited FOR a single rail supply


I can list quite a few issues with multirail PSUs. The better manufactures were very good at -hiding- them over the years.



The analogy that I gave above may not be to your liking as I predicted.  I used the V6/V4 engine comparison to make a simple point.  You may have a personal distaste for multi-rail PSUs citing its drawbacks, as if to say single-rails are superior in every way is an opinion and an opinion only.  Just like how I can praise the merits of a V6 engine heavy duty truck and say how EVERYONE should be buying V6 trucks makes absolutely no sense.  Our personal usage of vehicles can vary person to person; so can our usage of PCs and our hardware setup.

Now I can tell you're an interesting fellow Nick. I have no desire to get into a verbal pissing match to debate the pros and cons of multirail versus single rail - there are far more important things in life to get railed up about. No pun intended.  You're free to post as you will.  I have no desire to drag this continually with a person who is already dead set on his opinion. Have a good nite.


pissing match?

Please.. I would never lower myself to such a level


Instead if you would like to understand the real differences in the designs I suggest you may wish to start here..


         
Σ
P
o,i  

           i
η
=________  X 100
       
P
in  


which sets the stage for analysis by reducing both the multi and single unit to a ratio, expressed as a percentage, of the total real output power in the conversion process to the real power input required to produce it

From there we can continue through a series of formulas which can be used to compare our base ratio to our individual unit (multi and single) on equal systems and under equal load conditions.. This will fully address the electronic and mechanical design of each unit in the result. That will require a certified engineer with advanced degrees and years of experience in the subject to accomplish and fortunately for us one is in fact present.


When we get finished with that then I can explain how and why the result of those tests are different as I can then demonstrate both the electronic and mechanical reasons(s) for the loss from the single to multi rail unit in terms most can understand with support of formula which tie those descriptions to the laws of physics and will confirm the explanations.


And THEN we will discuss how the factor of TIME comes into play as components begin to degenerate within the first year of use. For that aspect of the analysis we will assume optimal climate control conditions for both units even though that is not a norm however it will further demonstrate the real Achilles' heel of the multi rail power supply unit which is exacerbated by modular plugs and termination points which should also be avoided with both single and multi rail power supplies and are another subject in themselves.


After we have finished our road of discovery you may read what Wingo posted above and although it could use a bit of refining it does represent the last factor involved...


Once we add it all up you will then have your answer as to why someone who is expereinced and educated in the subject would choose a single rail supply over a multi rail unit

Any power supply can be of good or poor engineering design, matters not if it is a multi or single rail unit. That is another factor which is completely out of the loop of our analysis however when one buys cheap (all too common even with what looks like a good PSU) they usually get what they pay for unless they know what they are doing and know the reputation of the manufacture so not only does the multi rail unit have many downsides.. a cheap multi rail unit takes that to the ηth degree.

If I was going to purchase a 'cheap' supply (which I never would) I would in fact want the 'cheap' single rail unit as that will not add insult to injury over time.





You asked a question... I answered it and answered it correctly

If you don’t like my answer and wish to argue it is nothing but an 'opinion' with someone who designed hardware for aerospace, I suggest you may wish to consider the person who is 'dead set' on his 'opinion' is you, sir

What I posted is not an 'opinion' although it was not technical in nature my comments are based in electronic/electrical engineering fact, not fiction or something I pulled out of the air.



I am however educated and trained to know marketing BS when I see and read it and regardless of their lack of technical explanation I thought perhaps there may be value in my initial comments so those who read them may in time avoid making costly mistakes.



Enjoy what you wish to use and believe is best.. Honestly, I could care less.  Wink




« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2009 at 1:18pm by NickN »  
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