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Beginner needs help! (Read 1171 times)
Apr 15th, 2009 at 10:37pm

sailochi   Offline
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Hi guys, this is my first post here and I desperately need some help, any advise would be very much appreciated.

I created the British army no.1 from scratch and near the stage of finishing it, however I came across a huge problem.

I found it impossible to keep a level flight, it is doing phugoid all the time. The canard has very little effect (which could be realistic) and more importantly it react inversely to the control, i.e. stick forward gives little bit of lift.

I am a beginner in modeling aircraft and the software I used are FSEdit and notepad. Please take a few minutes to fly my aircraft and give me some advise.  Cry

aircraft files http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LT71NARU
 
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Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:14pm

Wing Nut   Offline
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So your No. 1 is taking a No.2?   Grin

Sorry I don't have an answer, but that was just too good to resist...  Smiley
 

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Reply #2 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 1:56am

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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Huh Its this some kind of Joke >?

First ITS impossible you can assemble even the most simple object (A box) with FSedit and Notepad, you need FS9-SDK or fSX-SDK utilities and most important Gmax , 3d max , FSDS to works and export and compile into a mdl with IT

second YES the plane has a huge problem ,IT needs to be "RESET X Form" the surface illuminated are backwards

Third isn't this the Wright Brothers Airplane?

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___________________________________________________________

There is a complete model with VC and a hole Master Piece included in FS2004 which also works in FSX here it is ,I thought was the same model but is not..Sorry but is so similar

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and its diffucult to fly as the real life First plane made,Like your model

You can use the air and aircraft files from this model But You have a worth proble which I describe above Smiley

« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2009 at 9:16am by Alejandro Rhodes »  
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Reply #3 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:22am

sailochi   Offline
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To clarify things, I created the visual model using Gmax myself. It is not the Wright Flyer and its based on....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7675179.stm
...

I want to model the flight dynamics now and thats where my problem occurs. So its not a really good idea to just use the cfg of the Wright Flyer...

And what do you mean by "RESET X Form" the surface illuminated are backwards ??

Thanks

 
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Reply #4 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 11:36am

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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Ok, Look at the photos above , again ..

 See the ilumination, Can you see that the wings and elevator the Lights come from Below ? is Like if the Sun were below the plane?

If you can't notice this ,I do , and that is easy to fix

first made a backup of the gmax like the way you have then follow select all the objects with this issue (Wing and tail I guess) then follow the number as I said here

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Export the model again and see if it shows well (Sometimes it has to be transformated first , Can be shown now all twisted or maybe Not) But the Light should be coming from the sky now and not from the ground..

 
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Reply #5 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 11:42am

Hagar   Offline
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Alex. I think you misunderstood the question. sailochi is trying to adjust the Flight Dynamics. The elevator control (canard) is working in the reverse direction. When you push the stick forward the aircraft goes up instead of down.

PS. This is an FS9 model.
 

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Reply #6 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:02pm

sailochi   Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 11:36am:
Ok, Look at the photos above , again ..

 See the ilumination, Can you see that the wings and elevator the Lights come from Below ?.........


Thanks, you made a really good point  Wink

But my question is really based on the flight dynamics....
 
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Reply #7 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:23pm

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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I know this is a FS9 Model ,I download it, I know he's asking about flight dynamics question Which Obviously Is not my area I mean this type of plane

I Hope Some one Sit down a while and download the plane and fix the dynamics for him.

I just saw something from my point of view much worth , and IHO that Is something very Easy to FIX it, This is when I saw a problem of DESIGN and Not Dynamics that Few people know how to fix it and perhaps He as a beginner wasn't aware of this , So This isn't about a point ,This is something about a wrong protection of an Aircraft in the Game whether FSX or FS9 ..

I guess I just stick my nose where no buddy ask me to..
 
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Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:28pm

Hagar   Offline
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Please don't get the huff Alex. No offence intended. I'm only trying to help. Kiss
 

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Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:31pm

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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Hagar wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:28pm:
Please don't get the huff Alex. No offence intended. I'm only trying to help. Kiss



No Doug  Grin Im not Huff (I don't know what that means) its true ,see he's right he didn't ask for anything else ,and I stick my nose in something else ,I blame myself , Just trying to help  Wink

and BTW when he Maps that area will turn much worse ,so I just avoiding him the latter problem
 
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Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:35pm

Hagar   Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:31pm:
Hagar wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:28pm:
Please don't get the huff Alex. No offence intended. I'm only trying to help. Kiss



No Doug  Grin Im not Huff (I don't know what that means) its true ,see he's right he didn't ask for anything else ,and I stick my nose in something else ,I blame myself , Just trying to help  Wink

Your point was quite valid & I'm sure it's appreciated. I would fix that aircraft myself if I knew how. FS flight dynamics was always a black art to me. Sad
 

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Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 2:52pm

Travis   Offline
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Well, I guess since I'm gonna start working on another similar problem, I could take this one on, too.  Shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

A few questions:

What files did you start with for the CFG and AIR?

What exactly is "phugoid"? Huh  Sounds like an alien sneeze . . .
 

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Reply #12 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 3:52pm

sailochi   Offline
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Travis wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 2:52pm:
Well, I guess since I'm gonna start working on another similar problem, I could take this one on, too.  Shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

A few questions:

What files did you start with for the CFG and AIR?

What exactly is "phugoid"? Huh  Sounds like an alien sneeze . . .


I started with the Wright Flyer CFG. I didnt know that the AIR file have effect on the flight dynamics. Maybe its worth while to take a look. What software should I use to explore the AIR file?

And phugoid is an aircraft motion, basically the aircraft bounces up and down and changes speed. You can find a full describtion from wiki

Thank you
 
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Reply #13 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 4:49pm

Alejandro Rojas L.   Ex Member
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Travis wrote on Apr 16th, 2009 at 2:52pm:
What exactly is "phugoid"? Huh  Sounds like an alien sneeze . . .



Grin Grin Grin ROLF!!!!


there's no need to dig into air files ,unless you are making presision gauges and need exact values ,Brett , taught me that to modified all the behave of an airplane just aircraft.cfg , before that I used to screw it up and complicate my life in AirED

"Don't touch the air files" that was why the first citation x I release 4 years ago all it did was climb alone ,and do crazy things and the 727 the first one for fs2004 couldn't hold at200kt with flaps at 15%  


Travis Grab the Baron 58 air file and its aircraft.cfg set the same contact points you used to have ,and start over in Just aircraft.cfg
 
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Reply #14 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 4:49pm

Travis   Offline
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Oh, I see.  The conventional term for phugoid is porpoising.  Anyway, I'll take a look and see what I can do.

There are several programs out there for messing with the airfile, such as AirEd and AirWrench.  AW is payware, though.  AirEd is probably what you would want to start out with.  Do a google search for it, or search here at SimV.
 

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Reply #15 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 5:44pm

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There are a few things that can ONLY be changed in the air file. The parameters I've modified in air files are, landing gear drag.. cowl-flap drag, and a few non-performance effecting things like how CHT changes, or fuel pressure, or oil pressure and temperature.

Other than that, as long as the air-file matches the basic model (mainly number and type of engines), everything else can be done in the aircraft.cfg file. In fact, if there's an aircraft.cfg file entry, it overrides the air file anyway.


The key is to use real numbers, and real geometry.. that's 75% of the work. The rest is just fine-tuning.
 
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Reply #16 - Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:07pm

Travis   Offline
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Downloaded and working on it.  Already made significant improvements!  Although I may need to actually start with a fresh version.  There seem to be some anomalies that I can't find the fix for.  But it's in the works!

I don't suppose you'd be willing to send me the actual Gmax file?  I could really use it to figure out some of the more technical details of the aircraft geometry.

And Alex was right: you need to fix that lighting issue. Wink
 

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Reply #17 - Apr 17th, 2009 at 6:54am

sailochi   Offline
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Thanks  Wink Its fascinating to hear that, please do tell me what changes have been made so I can learn from it.

And here is the Gmax model and some initial drawings I used to create the model.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KRFL3WQ0

Finally, I should mention that I have kept all inputted values as true as possible  Smiley
 
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Reply #18 - Apr 26th, 2009 at 5:05pm

sailochi   Offline
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Hi Travis, just wondering what changes you have made to the cfg to make it fly better? I should try it out myself. Thanks!
 
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