Simviation Forum - Hamilton loses Aussie 3rd place!

Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 5:29am

C Offline
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The madness continues! Naughty McLaren!

Hamilton excluded from Aussie GP

Good job the results haven't been published yet by Rob. Grin

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Reply #1 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 5:57am

Craig. Offline
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I do often wonder if these stewards are drunk the whole weekend.
"Oh we only just uncovered radio evidence to back up he was lying"
Funny that considering it was on youtube on bloody tuesday. Roll Eyes

The funny thing is, if the diffuser row is now settled in the courts in favor of it being illegal it'll be Alonso who'll finish 1st with torro rosso 2 and 3. So the stewards are just changing a decision that'll likely be changed again next week.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_stew...

the radio conversations.

« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 11:57am by Craig. »

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Reply #2 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 12:00pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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New rule that will increase passing: 1st place will now be classified as last in the standings. Sorry Brawn, congrats Force India

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #3 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 12:51pm

C Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 12:00pm:

New rule that will increase passing: 1st place will now be classified as last in the standings. Sorry Brawn, congrats Force India

Good for Mercedes either way!
Grin

Worryingly for everyone in the week's Autosport, BGP have found the Merc to be more efficient than the Honda in cooling terms, meaning the tiny sidepods can be shrunk further!

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Reply #4 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 1:14pm

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Can't have McLaren scoring before Ferrari can we Lips Sealed

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Reply #5 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 2:17pm

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My thoughts are that had it been Hamilton who had gone off and Trulli gone past then Hamilton would have been penalised for overtaking him legitimately to regain the place.

The other thing that that strikes me is that if a car leaves the track during a safety car period and retires/crashes ...... does everyone have to stop until the SC pulls off? Because in theory you would be overtaking.

In my mind Trulli had left the track and therefore wasn't in the race no matter if kept it going and pulled back on, otherwise you would have the situation described above.

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Reply #6 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 3:17pm

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eno wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 2:17pm:

My thoughts are that had it been Hamilton who had gone off and Trulli gone past then Hamilton would have been penalised for overtaking him legitimately to regain the place.

The other thing that that strikes me is that if a car leaves the track during a safety car period and retires/crashes ...... does everyone have to stop until the SC pulls off? Because in theory you would be overtaking.

In my mind Trulli had left the track and therefore wasn't in the race no matter if kept it going and pulled back on, otherwise you would have the situation described above.

I think if you leave the track during a safety car period, then you should wait for the entire field to pass. Trulli must have had his thumb up his rear to crash out whist following the SC. Also how slow does the car in front have to go before it is deemed to be damaged/pulled over. The leader of the pack can back everyone up and play mind games, can cars further down the field not do it too.

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Reply #7 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 4:11pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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expat wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 3:17pm:

eno wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 2:17pm:

My thoughts are that had it been Hamilton who had gone off and Trulli gone past then Hamilton would have been penalised for overtaking him legitimately to regain the place.

The other thing that that strikes me is that if a car leaves the track during a safety car period and retires/crashes ...... does everyone have to stop until the SC pulls off? Because in theory you would be overtaking.

In my mind Trulli had left the track and therefore wasn't in the race no matter if kept it going and pulled back on, otherwise you would have the situation described above.

I think if you leave the track during a safety car period, then you should wait for the entire field to pass. Trulli must have had his thumb up his rear to crash out whist following the SC. Also how slow does the car in front have to go before it is deemed to be damaged/pulled over. The leader of the pack can back everyone up and play mind games, can cars further down the field not do it too.

Matt

I agree with you here, a driver clumbsy enough to depart the track during a SC should go to the back of the field. This would clear up any "catch 22" situations where a driver who passes another driver who drives off the track would fear the FIA's punishment for passing him, so he lets the other driver pass, but the other driver doesn't want to pass under the SC either so he slows down, but passes any way then gets penalised after the race. Mclaren were paranoid trying to avoid being penalised by the stewards. Maybe a rule that says that drivers shouldn't work it out on their own on the track and allow race control (if they are competent enough) sort out the order and tell the teams. So if a driver goes off the track, other people can pass him, but that driver cannot pass anyone during the SC until race control allows them. Drivers who slow to allow another driver by will be ordered not to unless someone speeds past them.

That was too confusing. How about just get rid of the damn rule book alltogether along with KERS?

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #8 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 5:20pm

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The issue isn't whether Trulli had left the track and Lewis passed him. It was the fact that lewis had then asked the team what to do next and they told him to let him back through or not back through either way. And when Mclaren and Lewis went to the FIA after the race they had told the FIA that they didn't tell him to do anything when they had clearly done so. It's the fact that they gave false information to the FIA that done them in.
The FIA are still further investigating, and if they really wanted to they could throw the book at him and disqualify either Lewis or Mclaren from the rest of the season.
I dont see them doing that, and they shouldn't. But then when have they made a sensible decision.

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Reply #9 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 5:45pm

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This was on Autosport forums, I think its brilliant.
Although to be fair you could replace Whitmarsh with Bernie or Max and it would work quite well. Grin

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Reply #10 - Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 9:50pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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I know it was because Hammy supposedly "misled" the fia, but it seems all of this could have been avoided. Of course misled according to the fia could mean anything from lying to wearing purple sox on a Tuesday before the summer solstice while eating apple pie

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #11 - Apr 3^rd, 2009 at 1:54am

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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2009 at 9:50pm:

Wearing purple sox on a Tuesday before the summer solstice while eating apple pie

Unless it is Ferrari, in which case you would be promoted to pole position, given an extra point for turning up and everyone else would have to start form the pit lane Grin

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Reply #12 - Apr 3^rd, 2009 at 4:52pm

C Offline
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In the words of a very famous comedic line,

Quote:

He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!

Non bene. I think Lewis may have learnt a lesson. There's a boundary to team loyalty, and he should've said no.

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Reply #13 - Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #14 - Apr 4^th, 2009 at 3:19am

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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

How dare you!!!!...............To use Ferrari and penalise in the same sentance Angry

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Reply #15 - Apr 4^th, 2009 at 4:36am

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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

You can include Barichello for causing that massive crash at the start last week as well lol.

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Reply #16 - Apr 4^th, 2009 at 9:04pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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Ya know, screw F1! Go Brawn!

Tomarrow is St Pete for Indycars, and Rahal is on pole! I enjoy rooting for that guy!

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #17 - Apr 6^th, 2009 at 11:58am

C Offline
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Craig. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 4:36am:

The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

You can include Barichello for causing that massive crash at the start last week as well lol.

Ah, but wasn't it later noticed that Rubens whilst looking the guilty party, was actually tagged from behind himself by the increasing Piquet Jr-esque Kovalinen. (not to mention he had nowhere to go as Webber turned in on him).

With McLaren's season so far, I think HK might be rivalling Piquet Jr for first out of a job this season. Races 2. Laps completed? Nil. Drove into the back of Barrichello in Melbourne, and lost control off line on lap 1 this weekend.

Poor.

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Reply #18 - Apr 6^th, 2009 at 4:34pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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C wrote on Apr 6^th, 2009 at 11:58am:

Craig. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 4:36am:

The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

You can include Barichello for causing that massive crash at the start last week as well lol.

Ah, but wasn't it later noticed that Rubens whilst looking the guilty party, was actually tagged from behind himself by the increasing Piquet Jr-esque Kovalinen. (not to mention he had nowhere to go as Webber turned in on him).

With McLaren's season so far, I think HK might be rivalling Piquet Jr for first out of a job this season. Races 2. Laps completed? Nil. Drove into the back of Barrichello in Melbourne, and lost control off line on lap 1 this weekend.

Poor.

kinda sounds like the start to massas season last year. hmmmmm.......

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #19 - Apr 6^th, 2009 at 4:54pm

C Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 6^th, 2009 at 4:34pm:

C wrote on Apr 6^th, 2009 at 11:58am:

Craig. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 4:36am:

The Ruptured Duck wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

The madness continues. As long as the fia is insane i wonder if an appeal could be made to penalise massa for running into Bourdais last year at Fuji?

You can include Barichello for causing that massive crash at the start last week as well lol.

Ah, but wasn't it later noticed that Rubens whilst looking the guilty party, was actually tagged from behind himself by the increasing Piquet Jr-esque Kovalinen. (not to mention he had nowhere to go as Webber turned in on him).

With McLaren's season so far, I think HK might be rivalling Piquet Jr for first out of a job this season. Races 2. Laps completed? Nil. Drove into the back of Barrichello in Melbourne, and lost control off line on lap 1 this weekend.

Poor.

kinda sounds like the start to massas season last year. hmmmmm.......

Massa completed 57 laps in the process though. Wink

Heikki? None. Not what McLaren need when at the moment they probably need all the running and data they can get!

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Reply #20 - Apr 6^th, 2009 at 6:29pm

Craig. Offline
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Thing is if he can just get his race tactics sorted he is clearly faster in the car than Hamilton at the moment.
And Massa is having Massa's start to 2008 again. 2 races no points. Roll Eyes

Only now he is called "Felipe baby" Grin

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Reply #21 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 11:44am

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Craig. wrote on Apr 6^th, 2009 at 6:29pm:

Thing is if he can just get his race tactics sorted he is clearly faster in the car than Hamilton at the moment.

He can't seem to master the race bit though really. He hasn't kept his head for either first lap yet! Grin

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Reply #22 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:15pm

Craig. Offline
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full fia statement. could be bye bye Mclaren if true. Idiots.
Quote:

"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been invited to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, to answer charges that, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, it

- on 29 March, 2009, told the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix that no instructions were given to Hamilton in Car No. 1 to allow Trulli in Car no. 9 to pass when both cars were behind the safety car, knowing this statement to be untrue;

- procured its driver Hamilton the current World Champion, to support and confirm this untrue statement to the stewards;

- although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;

- on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;

- on 2 April, 2009, at the second stewards' hearing, procured its driver Hamilton to continue to assert the truth of the false statement given to the stewards on 29 March, while knowing that what he was saying to the stewards was not true."

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Reply #23 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 11:18am

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Craig. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:

full fia statement. could be bye bye Mclaren if true. Idiots.

Do you really think Bernie will let that happen Grin

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Reply #24 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 11:22am

Craig. Offline
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expat wrote on Apr 9^th, 2009 at 11:18am:

Craig. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:

full fia statement. could be bye bye Mclaren if true. Idiots.

Do you really think Bernie will let that happen Grin

Matt

Bernies already come out and said they are facing possible suspension. I doubt he really cares right now. Brawn Gp are far easier to market to far more people. The minnows who come in a destroy the big teams. Far easier than one guy and a team who cant seem to stop lying and cheating. Look where it got him with ferrari. Wink

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Reply #25 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 4:43pm

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Craig. wrote on Apr 9^th, 2009 at 11:22am:

expat wrote on Apr 9^th, 2009 at 11:18am:

Craig. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:

full fia statement. could be bye bye Mclaren if true. Idiots.

Do you really think Bernie will let that happen Grin

Matt

Bernies already come out and said they are facing possible suspension. I doubt he really cares right now. Brawn Gp are far easier to market to far more people. The minnows who come in a destroy the big teams. Far easier than one guy and a team who cant seem to stop lying and cheating. Look where it got him with ferrari. Wink

Could be a great start to the season, McLaren kicked out and the FIA demoting the top three teams on the leader board due to illegal aerodynamics Huh

Matt

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Reply #26 - Apr 9^th, 2009 at 5:18pm

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they wont be demoted. It'll be a future thing not a retrospective penalty. Or thats what I've been reading. See ferrari's floor and renaults mass damper the past few years. Something tells me even without the diffuser Brawns got a lot in the bag over everyone else.

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Reply #27 - Apr 10^th, 2009 at 4:06am

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Craig. wrote on Apr 9^th, 2009 at 5:18pm:

even without the diffuser Brawns got a lot in the bag over everyone else.

Yes you are right. Even with the diffuser, looking at the released fuel loads, Brawn were running with more that the rest. Take the time advantage off for the aero's and they were still faster with a heavier car. I am now just waiting for the Jenson backlash because he is not French or German Grin

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Reply #28 - Apr 29^th, 2009 at 7:02am

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Mclaren receive 3 race suspended ban for the liegate scandle. Roll Eyes

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Reply #29 - Apr 30^th, 2009 at 5:28pm

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Craig. wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 7:02am:

Mclaren receive 3 race suspended ban for the liegate scandle. Roll Eyes

Does this mean they are banned for 3 races? On Autosport this morning Hamilton was talking like they were going tobe in spain.

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #30 - Apr 30^th, 2009 at 6:12pm

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No the ban is suspended for a year. Basically if they do anything against the sporting regulations or further evidence comes about that those in Mclaren who say they didn't know. really did then they are banned for the next 3 races from that time.

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