flaminghotsauce wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 6:18am:


You may misunderstand me. I don't have an "attitude" about controllers... most of my avoidance of transitioning controlled airspace is out of deference to them and those directly under their control within such airspaces.
I did most of my training at KTEB, a Class D under one of the biggest, busiest Class Bs in the country. Training out of N07 later, I'd often be assigned to transition the KCDW class D en route to KMMU, another Class D next door... all underneath the Class B. I know the drill, and I don't find it to be a big problem. But if I have no urgent need to penetrate a class C, D, or B, I will avoid it simply because those airspaces and control centers are there for terminal traffic.

 If I am outside that zone, I am not short-changing myself by not talking to terminal ATC, nor am I necessarily giving them a headache as an unidentified VFR squawk (although I have occasionally given a tower a heads-up if I'm skimming over a class D or C, just so they can note me and forget about me).  On the other hand, if I would like to go through only for my own convenience, I could create a problem for ATC, for terminal traffic, and for myself. Sure, the system allows for it, that's why it's legal. ATC can always deny you passage if the don't want to deal wit you... try transitioning the NY or Chicago Class Bs sometime while squawking VFR  when they are busy and you'll see what I mean.

The idea that one should seek to transition controlled terminal areas in order to have, in effect, flight following doesn't make a lot of sense. Immediately outside such zones, you can get FF from a controller not involved with the terminal area, without adding to the controller/pilot workload within that terminal area or exposing yourself to a higher density of traffic.

To further illustrate, here's some things I have experienced... let me repeat first that I am not bashing ATC here, just providing a reality-check about putting more stock in radar coverage than yor own eyes and brain:.

-The two closest calls I have ever had, in terms of proximity to other traffic (really close, BTW), were inside  a Class D. In the pattern. In one case, the controller had an idea we were close, but had failed to sequence us properly for final.
  In the other case, the controller failed to notice that the other aircraft on downwind was flying a wider pattern, which eventually put it right off my right wing before I saw it.

The system is not perfect, and every time you enter any kind of terminal airspace, the traffic density is likely to increase, and with it, the chance of collision. Controllers or no controllers.

 -When I am using FF, I have found that only about half the time I get an alert, I am able to actually see the traffic. My eyes are good, but under normal-vis daytime conditions, if a light aircraft is more than three miles from me, it's very unlikely I will see it. Many pilots
I know have admitted the same. Sometimes, even though both aircraft are VFR, there are clouds between me and the other plane. Again, I think it's wonderful that FF is there so you can get a heads-up, but the system requires pilot vigilance and common sense first and foremost.

As another example, consider the terrible accident that gave birth to the ATC system as we know it (1956 Grand Canyon midair). On the day of that accident, ATC consisted basically of dispatching: airline flights could sort of reserve a route, with he idea that they would check in at certain points to confirm they were on time and on course. With the lighter enroute traffic of the day, this usually worked out fine.

But if the schedule slipped, and crews opted to go VFR in remote areas, any failure to really think ahead, stick closely to the orignal plan, and scan vigilantly could be disastrous. This kind of thing could still theoretically happen, in areas outside of radar coverage, and maybe even outside of range of comms with ATC (like over oceans). And similar midairs, unfortunately, have occurred since, despite radar converage and comm. with ATC.  Ironically, complacent trust of the ATC "security blanket" has contributed... such as the 2002 airliner collision when both crews ignored their TCAS warnings because the controller hadn't given an alert!

 I think about the 1956 accident every time I am tempted to go between clouds, even if I know I can maintain perfectly legal VFR while doing so.

From the Wiki article:

"Both air crews had estimated that they would arrive somewhere along the Painted Desert line at approximately 10:31 AM local time. The Painted Desert line was approximately 175 miles in length and ran from Bryce Canyon, Utah in the north to Winslow, Arizona in the south, at an angle of 315 degrees relative to true north—wholly outside of controlled air space. Owing to the different headings taken by the two planes, TWA's intersection of the Painted Desert line, assuming no further course changes, would be at a 13 degree angle relative to that of the United flight, placing the Constellation to the left of the DC-7.

As the two aircraft, now flying at the same altitude and approximately the same speed, approached the Grand Canyon, the pilots were forced to weave around towering cumulus clouds, as flying in uncontrolled airspace required that they remain visible in clear air at all times. As they were maneuvering near the canyon, it is believed that both planes simultaneously passed by the same cloud formation, though on opposite sides, setting the stage for the collision."


The buck stops with the PIC, never ever forget that.

Brett_Henderson wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:


Oh yeah, I forgot about getting dumped when using FF, or denied transition when handed off by TRACON to a terminal sector. That's happened to me enough times trying to transition the NYC Class B from the west that I generally assume I'll be scooting underneath, 500 feet over the beach south of KJFK if I'm looking to fly out to Long Island.
And enroute, I've  been turned loose from FF a couple of times... what to do? Well, you do the same thing you must do at all times when VFR... think about the possibilty of other traffic and be vigilant.



I know a lot of pilots who regularly make longish VFR flights grouse and grumble about having to divert around terminal airspaces, but I've never found it to be a big inconvenience. And that "big sky" gets smaller within such airspaces... combine that with the potential for complacency (pilot assumes controller is looking out, controller assumes pilot can see more than they really do) and it becomes a safety issue, beyond any workload issues.
 
Besides, I usually enjoy the challenge of planning around or under terminal control areas... keeps those nav skills sharp.


I'll never forget the time my instructor showed me how to "sneak" around the CDW/MMU airspaces while avoiding the lower tier of the Class B in order to approach KTEB from the SW...without a GPS, mind you... looking at the terminal chart, it seems daunting, but if you are paying attention, it's quite simple. Monitor Tower freqs as you go so you know who's coming and going, stay on course and at one altitude, be wary if clouds are between you and areas where IFR traffic may be transiting, and such a fight is not stressful, really. Frankly, I'd rather do that in that area than transition the Class B... you migt hav more altitude to work with, but you are exposing yourself to a lot more traffic. It's important to remember at times like tat that it may be a VMC day, but there may be IFR or simulated-IFR flights in the area, practicing or just passing through.


Even if it's a solo pilot with no hood on, or with a CFII or safety pilot, there's a tendency when IFR to look outside less, because you need to pay more attention to nav instruments, etc. And many jets have lousy sightlines... they're not made, really, for visual flight. A good example of how dangerous this can be is the collision over San Diego in 1978. Perfect wx, both aircraft under ATC control... but each party made a small error or assumption, and the result was disastrous. The light single was practicing ILS appoaches under VFR, but it could have happened if they were transitioning.

Very thorough article here on that one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_182

beaky wrote on Mar 19^th, 2009 at 12:51pm:


A fascinating read...

..and a wake-up call, even for we Flight Sim Pilots during our flights, using the Default ATC communication!

Even with all the aircrafts transponders switched on and contacting the Tower..."things" can still go disastrously wrong without a constant "look-out"!

Its amazing how small the sky can suddenly become when there is a big Jumbo Jet right on your C150's tail....and he hasn't spotted you!... ...!

Paul...G-BPLF... ...!