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Formation Flying as Hard in Real Life? (Read 692 times)

Feb 26^th, 2009 at 4:04pm

raptorx Offline
Colonel
There's too much confusion...
San Diego, CA

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Is it as hard in real-life flying to maintain a close distance & speed to another aircraft as it is in FSX? I play around with my AI aircraft and the F-16 or P-51 and it's next to impossible to stay close for any period of time without falling behind, overtaking, or (gulp) collisions.

Does FSX exaggerate the inertia/momentum of the aircraft or is formation flying really that hard?

-Jim

Rampage II Gene, i7 965 4GHz
Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600
XP x64 SP2
ASUS Matrix GTX285

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Reply #1 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 4:56pm

Ospreyluvr Offline
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Fly FS
Virginia

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I personally think that FSX does a great job of simulating flying in formation.

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Reply #2 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 6:00pm

Mobius Offline
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Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

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One thing that makes it a little different (in my opinion) is the time delay between moving the controller and the sim reacting. Also, low frame rates can make small, precise control inputs difficult. Still, formation flying is one of the most challenging aspects of flying, so don't expect it to be easy.

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Reply #3 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 6:05pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I agree... Formation flying in MSFS, is pretty realistic.

I'll post a link (and accompanying story) to a very short video, when it clears the Simteevee censors Cool

Cool

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Reply #4 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 6:56pm

raptorx Offline
Colonel
There's too much confusion...
San Diego, CA

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Posts: 434

Thanks for the replies!

I was hoping it really was that hard-that's the challenge. As long as FSX is getting it right and realistic. I only have AI to fly with so I don't know what another player would be like.

My dad has FSX and I wonder how hard it would be to set up a link.

-Jim

Rampage II Gene, i7 965 4GHz
Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600
XP x64 SP2
ASUS Matrix GTX285

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Reply #5 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 7:06pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
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You can bypass the Gamespy mess, and just do a "LAN" game.. connect to each other by IP address.

Then, you can fly in formation, or even share a cockpit and take turns flying the same airplane, while the other watches Cool

Cool

(even from a right seat in some models)

(or from a passenger seat in my Saab 340) Wink

Wink

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Reply #6 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 7:26pm

raptorx Offline
Colonel
There's too much confusion...
San Diego, CA

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Thanks. I'll read up on how to do that.

So how does it work when one party has an airplane that the other doesn't have, does it still show up?

And does Nick's XP setup list disable anything I need to connect?

Rampage II Gene, i7 965 4GHz
Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600
XP x64 SP2
ASUS Matrix GTX285

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Reply #7 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 7:51pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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You still both have to have the same plane.. it's no different than GameSpy..

I'm not sure about Nick's list..he'll have to answer that. The only issues I've seen are with routers and firewalls. Dealing with those is a case-by-case thing.. We always just disable all firewalls, and bypass all routers.

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Reply #8 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:23pm

Bob70 Offline
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Phoenix Arizona , USA

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 7:51pm:

We always just disable all firewalls, and bypass all routers.

Hi Brent

Isn't that asking for trouble? I'd be afraid of picking up a bug. I'd like to hook up with my son on the flight sim but haven't because of this threat.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #9 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:39pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
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I'm not going to swear to anything.. regarding YOUR security..

But if it's just you two connected.. no browser opened.. you shouldn't catch a bug..

As far as hackers searching for IPs ? Who knows ? I know that I can't "hack" into my own computers on a home network, unless I set them up to talk to each other... but i'm no expert, either.

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Reply #10 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:55pm

Bob70 Offline
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Phoenix Arizona , USA

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:39pm:

I'm not going to swear to anything.. regarding YOUR security..

But if it's just you two connected.. no browser opened.. you shouldn't catch a bug..

As far as hackers searching for IPs ? Who knows ? I know that I can't "hack" into my own computers on a home network, unless I set them up to talk to each other... but i'm no expert, either.

Me neither. You are probably right. I still don't think I want to take a chance. Also I'm not on a home network with him. He lives in another city. Thanks for your input though.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #11 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 10:08pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Bob70 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:55pm:

Brett_Henderson wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:39pm:

I'm not going to swear to anything.. regarding YOUR security..

But if it's just you two connected.. no browser opened.. you shouldn't catch a bug..

As far as hackers searching for IPs ? Who knows ? I know that I can't "hack" into my own computers on a home network, unless I set them up to talk to each other... but i'm no expert, either.

Me neither. You are probably right. I still don't think I want to take a chance. Also I'm not on a home network with him. He lives in another city. Thanks for your input though.

Bob

My pleasure..

I've done it for years (IP multi-player, over the internet).. I can't imagine how you'd be vulnerable.

Maybe Nick or someone who knows will chime in..

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Reply #12 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 1:16am

dmdragon Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Posts: 29

(Accurate) Formation flying is extremely challenging in real life as it is in the game, but although flight simulator is as real as it gets unfortunately something such as formation flying cannot be faithfully reproduced in a pc sim as there are things in real life that can't be recreated or substituted;

A quick glace over ones shoulder or watching something out of the corner of your eye while you focus on something else as you would in real life is just something you can’t do with a pc monitor/s.

Also the input from your joystick and/or throttle does not create the same relationship between a pilots hand and aircraft control surfaces were you can ‘feel’ the movement of the aircraft.

Nor does the sound accurately enough give you an indication of the engines performance and the power output/ rpm you would get and use in real life.

Don’t get me wrong Microsoft flight simulator is an amazing simulation of flying and I thoroughly enjoy it, but that’s my 2 cents based of my own real world piloting experience.

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Reply #13 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 7:10am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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dmdragon wrote on Feb 27^th, 2009 at 1:16am:

(Accurate) Formation flying is extremely challenging in real life as it is in the game, but although flight simulator is as real as it gets unfortunately something such as formation flying cannot be faithfully reproduced in a pc sim as there are things in real life that can't be recreated or substituted;

A quick glace over ones shoulder or watching something out of the corner of your eye while you focus on something else as you would in real life is just something you can’t do with a pc monitor/s.

Also the input from your joystick and/or throttle does not create the same relationship between a pilots hand and aircraft control surfaces were you can ‘feel’ the movement of the aircraft.

Nor does the sound accurately enough give you an indication of the engines performance and the power output/ rpm you would get and use in real life.

Don’t get me wrong Microsoft flight simulator is an amazing simulation of flying and I thoroughly enjoy it, but that’s my 2 cents based of my own real world piloting experience.

You are correct.. but what you just described, are a desktop simulator's limitations, as they apply to just about every aspect of flying an airplane.

I've never done tight formation flying.. I'm linking this video, because it fits the topic, and it's the only formation flying of myself I have recorded Cheesy

Cheesy

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1235736741/0

I have flown much closer than that, though.. And considering what a desktop simulator CAN replicate... it does an excellent job of it. Like (even at that distance) how quickly you can converge, when you're both going 120+mph.. and how eerily neat it is when the guy on your left needs to get over to your right, for his turn at the ILS.. when you're already flying in a narrow altitude window (maintaining 1000agl, and not going up into the ice-forming clouds at 1500agl Shocked

Shocked

).. I could count rivets on his belly Cool

Cool

).

By the time I got my turn at the ILS.. I had visible airframe ice Shocked

Shocked

I came real close to limping down/out into cloud-free, G airspace and landing at a small, uncontrolled airport.

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Reply #14 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 9:39am

DaveSims Offline
Colonel
Clear Lake, Iowa

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Posts: 2453

I do find formation flying in the sim a bit harder than real life, mainly due to the limitations of any simulation. In real life you can feel what your aircraft is doing better and see more of what is going on at once. Plus you usually have communication with the leader so you know what to expect him to do.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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