Simviation Forum - Tragedy in New York

Feb 13^th, 2009 at 1:48am

BigTruck Offline
Global Moderator
Former Sergeant of Marines
Tuscaloosa, AL

Gender:
Posts: 7161

There wasn't a river close enough to save this one Cry

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/577959.html

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #1 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 9:37am

Alrot Ex Member
I Love Simviation.

Oh darm!

I( just saw it on TV.) was a turboprop ,and seems was by the weather Cry

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/plane.crash.new.york/index.html?iref=mpstor...

EDIT: was one of this a bombardier q400
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/dash8/images/Q400_1.jpg

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #2 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 1:32pm

Steve M Offline
Colonel
Cambridge On.

Gender:
Posts: 4097

Saw this this morning before work. Tragic, one witness said the engines were sputtering as the plane passed over.

Flying with twins is a lot of fun..

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #3 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 2:37pm

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

A true and awful tragedy. I hope that an answer is swift in coming on this Cry

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #4 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 2:49pm

flyboy 28 Offline
Colonel
Jacksonville, FL

Posts: 13323

There was a report not too long ago that it had been two years without a fatal crash for commercial aviation in the United States. Couldn't keep it up forever, I guess. Undecided

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #5 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 3:52pm

Steve M Offline
Colonel
Cambridge On.

Gender:
Posts: 4097

I heard another clue in this news release. The engines went silent before the crash?

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CT...

Flying with twins is a lot of fun..

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #6 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 4:03pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

one witness said the engines were sputtering as the plane passed over.

Quote:

I heard another clue in this news release. The engines went silent before the crash?

I wouldn't take much notice of eye-witness reports. They're usually unreliable. Media interviewers are very good at asking leading questions & they end up saying things they don't really mean.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #7 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 4:08pm

skoker Offline
Colonel
Jordan never wore his
safety goggles...
1G3

Gender:
Posts: 4611

N200WQ a Q400 inbound runway 23 opperated by Colgan.

I stayed up till 3A.M. Watching the TV. Once they let us I am going to see the extent of the damage... Cry

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #8 - Feb 13^th, 2009 at 6:33pm

expat Offline
Colonel
Deep behind enemy lines!

Gender:
Posts: 8499

It appears that they are looking at ice build up on the aircraft. That is the problem with large turboprop, ATR, Dash and alike. You have to wait for the ice to build up before it can be got rid off. I spannered on ATR 42 and 72's for nearly 5 years, the biggest pain was de-icer (note, not anti ice) boots.

Matt

PETA People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #9 - Feb 14^th, 2009 at 12:20pm

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

expat wrote on Feb 13^th, 2009 at 6:33pm:

It appears that they are looking at ice build up on the aircraft. That is the problem with large turboprop, ATR, Dash and alike. You have to wait for the ice to build up before it can be got rid off. I spannered on ATR 42 and 72's for nearly 5 years, the biggest pain was de-icer (note, not anti ice) boots.

Matt

...and the latest News from the BBC...

Ice build up....>>>>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7889764.stm

Paul...G-BPLF.. Cool

...!

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #10 - Feb 15^th, 2009 at 2:27am

tcco94 Offline
Colonel
Go Avs!
Bay Area, California

Gender:
Posts: 4241

Ive been hearing alot more of airplane crashes then usual.
Its not to good. Embarrassed

Sincerely, Tyler

www.tylerconnell.com
http://www.phoenixva.org/index.php/profile/view/PVA1557

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #11 - Feb 15^th, 2009 at 3:01pm

aussiewannabe Offline
Colonel
Directive!

Posts: 2541

As I don't want to start a new thread, I'll add this:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6264553.html

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #12 - Feb 15^th, 2009 at 7:33pm

skoker Offline
Colonel
Jordan never wore his
safety goggles...
1G3

Gender:
Posts: 4611

aussiewannabe wrote on Feb 15^th, 2009 at 3:01pm:

As I don't want to start a new thread, I'll add this:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6264553.html

I have a friend that works with COEX and he said that the AP on off during landing in bad weather is common practice only when icing is occuring. It's just easier to land that way.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #13 - Feb 16^th, 2009 at 12:48pm

beaky Offline
Global Moderator
Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

Gender:
Posts: 14187

skoker wrote on Feb 15^th, 2009 at 7:33pm:

aussiewannabe wrote on Feb 15^th, 2009 at 3:01pm:

As I don't want to start a new thread, I'll add this:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6264553.html

I have a friend that works with COEX and he said that the AP on off during landing in bad weather is common practice only when icing is occuring. It's just easier to land that way.

It seems, at his point, like another one of those accidents where the crew just didn't know exactly what was wrong. If the tailplane had ice on it, they wouldn't know until they disconnected the AP, even when configured for landing. With the AP trimming away as they slowed up and dirtied up, they probably lost airflow over the tail before they could even think about turning of the AP. Once the tail stops flying on a plane like that, yu're finished unless you have a lot of altitude, which they didn't.
I'm not sure if they had seen any accumulation elsewhere on the plane... in that case, it may have been wise to start in manual mode much earlier, when they were higher and faster and had more options.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #14 - Feb 16^th, 2009 at 10:10pm

Al_Fallujah Ex Member

I am not going to take any guesses myself, much too novice a pilot.

I have heard icing, engine sputtering, one NTSB person mentioned a flat spin, because it landed belly down, facing the opposite direction of the flight path.

Another mention was wild attiude changes, including almost inverted flight.

Another article suggested the passengers and crew were up against 2Gs toward the end.

I have added their souls to my prayers.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #15 - Feb 16^th, 2009 at 11:44pm

BigTruck Offline
Global Moderator
Former Sergeant of Marines
Tuscaloosa, AL

Gender:
Posts: 7161

New word is that the de-icing was working but the pilot left the autopilot on too long and over-reacted when he switched it off and was covered in ice...this of course is speculation from the news here in the Bay area, it will be interesting to see what the actual investigation turns up...

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #16 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 4:23am

Boss_BlueAngels Offline
Colonel
I fly airplanes upside
down for fun.
Snohomish

Gender:
Posts: 696

Another accident that hits close to home... the First Officer (Rebecca Shaw) was a fellow classmate and friend of mine through college at Central Washington University. We both began the flight program at the same time and were in nearly every class together for four years, and even had the same instructor for instrument training. I've done dozens of projects and presentations with her. It was always a pleasure working with her. Toward the end of our instrument training I would ride along in the backseat on the cross country flights to observe and she did the same on my cross country flights. She was such a nice person and always did well in the classes. Toward the end of our college experience she worked at the local FBO as dispatcher. She was always a pleasant face to see before and after each flight.

Dang, 25 and I've nearly lost as many friends in aviation as my age!

The day is always better when you're flying upside down.&&&&www.fight2flyphoto.com&&&&Canon RebelXT&&Canon 18-55mm&&Sigma 10-20mm F/4-6.3&&Sigma 100-300mm F/4-6.3&&Sigma 50-500mm F/4-6.3

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #17 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 8:04am

beaky Offline
Global Moderator
Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

Gender:
Posts: 14187

Here's something interesting... from the PoA board, posted by a pilot from the same airline who has flown that aircraft...

"As was covered in the 4:00 NTSB brief today:

The only autopilot limitation that exists regarding icing is a Bombardier limitation that states: The autopilot is not to be used in severe icing. According to the NTSB, it does not appear as if there were any available signs that they were in severe icing, so they were well within the limitations of the auto pilot. The NTSB says the news got this wrong - the autopilot is allowed in icing conditions."

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #18 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 9:50am

BFMF Offline
Colonel
Pacific Northwest

Gender:
Posts: 19820

I just heard about this on the news lastnight. Such a tragedy.... Cry

COMPLETED: If Anyone Cares, Here's A Map Of My Current FSX Flight Around The World

My Reality Check Bounced

Back to top

IP Logged

	Search the archive: