Simviation Forum - RC size planes for Flight Simulator?

Feb 2^nd, 2009 at 10:27am

xbike Offline
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Howdy. Does anyone know of any Radio Control size planes for Flight Simulator? Or if Flight Simulator would even support such small planes?

I have my exercise bike connected to my computer and fly VFR.

As well as MS Flight Simulator, I also fly Real Flight G3.5 and G4 RC simulators. They are fun but limited in scenery. If there were RC Size planes for FS it would open up the world to small flying. I would love to fly around Washington DC, New York, Chicago, San Diego, Vegas, etc in a "Land of the Giants" mode. How many remember "Hawaiian Odyssey Scenery Adventure" with the fantasy scenery?

I tried FS Design Studio, but they depend on using existing planes for the flight model, without a small plane as a basis, I seem to be stuck.

Thanks much,
xbike

Mac Pro, ACD 30", FSX, FS9, FS2000, FS98, etc, Real Flight G3.5 and 4.0

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Reply #1 - Feb 2^nd, 2009 at 6:51pm

Travis Offline
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Its surely possible to build an aircraft in a small size, but you wouldn't really be able to have a VC that size, since you would run into several issues:

1. In FS9, you wouldn't get much detail, since it has a 4mm weld for any vertices, meaning no parts could be less than 4mm wide. In FSX, this issue is fixed.

2. The view distance is set in such a way that the eyepoint would be extremely big in comparison. You would pretty much have to zoom out all the way to get any real view of the cockpit.

But if you're okay with just viewing from outside, 2D panel or just no VC, you'd be fine.

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Reply #2 - Feb 2^nd, 2009 at 9:35pm

HarvesteR Offline
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actually, to keep things realistic, it would be better to fly such planes from 'tower' view... Cool

but the challenge really does lie in making convincing flight dynamics for these little planes... they don't quite behave like full-sized aircraft do, the air for them is thinner in comparison, and that leads to a very different behaviour

but this could prove a most interesting experiment

Oh, and this could be the only situation where using a gamepad instead of a joystick would yeald a more realistic experience Wink

remove the springs from the analogs and you're set Grin

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Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2009 at 10:43pm

xbike Offline
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Thanks Travis and HarvesteR,

This is kind of encouraging that at least it could be done. Yes, if I were to treat FS as an RC sim, tower view would work great. But even in the Real Flight RC Sim you can "jump in the plane" with a cockpit view. That's what I really want to do. "Land of the Giants" flying, around the buildings, into the stadiums, around the docks and cranes, etc.

I typically don't even have any cockpit view enabled these days, tending to use Shift Z for the text parameter bar. The cockpit just gets in the way of my out of window view. Yes, I know, probably not like most enthusiasts. Some screen shots of how I fly can be found at:
http://web.me.com/nubz/Human_Powered_Flight_Sim/Screen_Shots_30%22.html

It does sound like I will need to get into learning and editing the aircraft cfg file big time. When I check out the BLT (Basic Light Trainer) in Real Flight, I see parameters like: Dimensions (ft) x=3.52, y=2.49, z=.97; weight (lbs) .58, wing area (ft^2) 2.5, wing loading (oz/ft^2) 3.66, power plant Park Flyer Motor (G2) 9x4 APC Electric 1.00:1

So I can't just divide by 12 and make a plane, Huh

, rats.

Off to go read. Thanks again and all additional hints welcome.

xbike

« Last Edit: Mar 21^st, 2009 at 8:03pm by xbike »

Mac Pro, ACD 30", FSX, FS9, FS2000, FS98, etc, Real Flight G3.5 and 4.0

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Reply #4 - Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 4:12pm

Travis Offline
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Your engine parameters are gonna have to be wacky as all get out . . .

The weight won't be a problem, although you may have to tweak it to get it to sit right.

All kinds of weird tweaks will have to be performed. Wink

EDIT:

It just struck me that instead of making the plane be smaller, you could make the "world" be bigger by creating custom scenery that makes things look a lot larger. You'd have to do it in an enclosed area, but you could make scenery that resembles a house or room and then fly around that at 2x speed or greater in whatever aircraft you wanted. It probably wouldn't be as accurate, but it would be easier.

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Reply #5 - Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 11:10pm

xbike Offline
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Hi Travis,

Glancing through the Aircraft Configuration Files.htm there sure are a lot of parameters. Comparing that to the UltraLight Aircraft.cfg, it looks like many of them can be omitted or used as defaults. I see no electric power plants! And although there is the empty weight of the plane, I can't find the weight of the pilot. A 200 lb pilot in a 6 lb plane

Edit: found it. station_load.0. I'm going away now to read and play.

Yes, I will really need to read up or experiment with engines, props, etc.

My goal is to be able to fly around all the existing scenery that comes with Flight Simulator. To make a limited section of the world bigger would still really limit the flying options, similar to Real Flight. In "Hawaiian Odyssey Scenery Adventure" they had a big kitchen you could fly around in, but it wasn't "the world" ( http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Flight_Simulator/SD-HawFa.htm )

I also read about the .air file, but that doesn't look directly editable like the .cfg file. Not sure what to do there.

I guess I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. Should be interesting though.

Thanks again for your time,
xbike

« Last Edit: Feb 5^th, 2009 at 1:19pm by xbike »

Mac Pro, ACD 30", FSX, FS9, FS2000, FS98, etc, Real Flight G3.5 and 4.0

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Reply #6 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 1:19pm

Travis Offline
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There are SOME parameters that can be omitted, but most need to be included. And no, there are no electric power plants for FS. Everything is a combustion engine, or a glider. Perhaps that will be something we'll see in future releases. What I would recommend would be to use a regular piston engine and modify it to spin up VERY quickly, and use next to no fuel.

As for the weights: the pilot is not a default weight. You have to add it under the weight and balance section as one of the "stations". Otherwise, FS assumes the full weight you have selected as max gross includes everything (pilot, passengers, fuel, cargo, etc).

Good luck on this! I might just download if it/when it gets done. Wink

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Reply #7 - Feb 7^th, 2009 at 1:43am

HarvesteR Offline
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xbike wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 11:10pm:

I also read about the .air file, but that doesn't look directly editable like the .cfg file. Not sure what to do there.

the .air file is not straight text as is the aircraft.cfg, it is encoded...
i can't confirm this for FSX, but as far as FS9, there was a little program that was used to open and edit these files... they contain the bulk of flight related parameters, such as lift coefficient, wing incidence, surface areas and the lot... all crucial things to think about when trying to downscale an aircraft.

might require some knowledge of aerodynamics, as not all parameters are straightforwardly understandable

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Reply #8 - Feb 7^th, 2009 at 12:22pm

87HondaShadow Offline
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HarvesteR wrote on Feb 7^th, 2009 at 1:43am:

xbike wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 11:10pm:

I also read about the .air file, but that doesn't look directly editable like the .cfg file. Not sure what to do there.

the .air file is not straight text as is the aircraft.cfg, it is encoded...
i can't confirm this for FSX, but as far as FS9, there was a little program that was used to open and edit these files... they contain the bulk of flight related parameters, such as lift coefficient, wing incidence, surface areas and the lot... all crucial things to think about when trying to downscale an aircraft.

might require some knowledge of aerodynamics, as not all parameters are straightforwardly understandable

You can use AirEd (google it) on FSX air files. Just somethings are not editable.

Err 30kb limit?

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Reply #9 - Feb 9^th, 2009 at 2:23am

xbike Offline
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Thanks guys,

I have started the tutorials for gmax.

Looking for AirEd, the web site, www.simradar.com/File/Developer_Tools/index.html
gives an error, "Oops, we had the following problem: Unknown File requested."

This looks like the same software, Bob Chicilo mentions in his document, "Tweaking the flight dynamics of aircraft in one of Microsoft's simulators". He talks of Airman, an air editor for FS2002 which he says works with FS9 and FSX, but the file name is aired.exe.

Okay, found it at: http://desktopaviator.tripod.com/Programs/Utility/Air_Edit/index.htm

Thanks again for the help. Off to play some more.

xbike

Mac Pro, ACD 30", FSX, FS9, FS2000, FS98, etc, Real Flight G3.5 and 4.0

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