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HYPERTHREAD - FSX - i7 and YOU (Read 6143 times)
Reply #15 - Jan 28th, 2009 at 5:19pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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I would like everyone to add something to their testing...

After going through the HT checks as requested, DISABLE HT in the BIOS but leave the AffinityMask=N edit in the FSX.cfg file and use the value 15 for it and retest for smoother flight.




 
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Reply #16 - Jan 28th, 2009 at 9:54pm

jwenham   Offline
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Nick, I tried the test and when I did I goot my OOM problem back. I even lowered the usera down as low as you mentioned and still no luck. Then I removed my OC just to see if it would make things better and still no luck. SO for us 32 bit suckers Hyperthreading does not seem to be a option if you have a GPU with a ton of ram on it. Put all my settings back to as they were and all was good again. Will try the Mask now with no HT.
 

Intel i7 940 2.93 clocked to 4.0ghz Asus P6T Deluxe 6gb OCZ 1600 8-8-8-24 EVGA GTX 260 Superclocked Edition Thermalright 120 CPU Cooler Power PC & Cooling 750w PSU 1 tb Seagate Barracuda HD 500 gb Seagate Barracude HD 22" Viewsonic Widescreen Track IR 4 XP Pro x64 www.fairtax.org
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Reply #17 - Jan 28th, 2009 at 10:13pm

jwenham   Offline
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NickN wrote on Jan 28th, 2009 at 5:19pm:
I would like everyone to add something to their testing...

After going through the HT checks as requested, DISABLE HT in the BIOS but leave the AffinityMask=N edit in the FSX.cfg file and use the value 15 for it and retest for smoother flight.






Did it .... works great, alot smoother for me! What does the 15 do, apply all 4 cores?


Also running OCCT Beta it only shows a 50% CPU usage as does CPUID as well (This is when HT is on)
 

Intel i7 940 2.93 clocked to 4.0ghz Asus P6T Deluxe 6gb OCZ 1600 8-8-8-24 EVGA GTX 260 Superclocked Edition Thermalright 120 CPU Cooler Power PC & Cooling 750w PSU 1 tb Seagate Barracuda HD 500 gb Seagate Barracude HD 22" Viewsonic Widescreen Track IR 4 XP Pro x64 www.fairtax.org
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Reply #18 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 8:27am

wsciutti   Offline
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Nick,

Update on AM=15, HT off.

I don't know how you do this  Shocked, but here are my results:

Autogen = MAX (finally!!)
Scenery = MAX
Locked frames@30
AntiAlaising = 8xSQ!

Beaver: t/o from New York Skyports, day, fair weather: SMOOTH, frames dropped 2 during t/o run, otherwise 30.

C172: building storms at RIC: SMOOTH

SF260: aerobatics over mucho trees N of Whitbey NAS: SMOOTH

Baron: building storms, landing at KFCI: SMOOTH

I am not changing anything and will keep all settings after reinstall due to my moving to XP64 as soon as the disk arrives.

I still can't do unlimited without spikes but the flight was much smoother.

THANK YOU!!!!

Jack
 
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Reply #19 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 11:16am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Good.. then AffinityMask=15 with HT DISABLED in the BIOS also worked for you

Thanks!


 
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Reply #20 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 11:22am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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jwenham wrote on Jan 28th, 2009 at 10:13pm:
NickN wrote on Jan 28th, 2009 at 5:19pm:
I would like everyone to add something to their testing...

After going through the HT checks as requested, DISABLE HT in the BIOS but leave the AffinityMask=N edit in the FSX.cfg file and use the value 15 for it and retest for smoother flight.






Did it .... works great, alot smoother for me! What does the 15 do, apply all 4 cores?


Also running OCCT Beta it only shows a 50% CPU usage as does CPUID as well (This is when HT is on)



It locks FSX to the 4 physical cores of the proc and my theory right now is that it also resolves thread collision problems the i7 presents since FSX is not a hyperthread application and the changes to i7 design may be making the app work a bit confused as to what is a real core and what is a virtual core.

i7 design change makes the virtual core appear like a real core. Just because HT is disabled does not mean the other part of the core is not seen by the app.. .and that may be causing FSX to spawn threads for cores that do not really exist. By the time the app figures out that the threads being spawned are not being addressed it spawns another thread to a real core and a collision occurs and a stutter may ensue.

By locking FSX to the 4 physical cores the collisions may be eliminated






 
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Reply #21 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 12:03pm

wsciutti   Offline
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Nick,

Thank you for the explanation.

One last observation which probably verifies, on my system, your theory:

I monitored the task manager while flying and the core usage is much more stable.
Instead of an EKG, cores 2,3,4 are more stable with the peaks lasting longer and the valleys not as sharp.

I think this is translates into the smooth flight I now experience.

Jack

Smiley
 
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Reply #22 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 1:40pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

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ehhhh.. you cant really use that readout to make a solid estimate of what is happening.. but I get the idea
 
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Reply #23 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 2:16pm

wsciutti   Offline
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OPPS!

QUARK!QUARK! (I did get that, thanks for the rude entry to the OC club!)

Jack

Grin
 
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Reply #24 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 3:58pm

NickN   Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
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wsciutti wrote on Jan 29th, 2009 at 2:16pm:
OPPS!

QUARK!QUARK! (I did get that, thanks for the rude entry to the OC club!)

Jack

Grin




LOL!

gets'em every time
 
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Reply #25 - Feb 10th, 2009 at 7:35pm

stevehookem   Offline
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So what's the result of this test? If I have an i7, do I enable HT or not? What's the best way to run?
 

i7 940 at 4.0ghz • Asus P6T Deluxe • 6gb OCZ Gold 1600 • BFG 285 Superclocked • Velociraptor 300gb HD • LG BlueRay Burner • Thermalright 120 cooler • PC Power 750W PS • Antec 1200 • Windows XP 64
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Reply #26 - Feb 10th, 2009 at 8:45pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
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HT disabled for FSX

affinity mask is problematical and somthin you need to work out personally for the system


HT is only useful with applications like A/V editing and engineering programs designed to make use of the virtural threads and should be enabled if you use such software
 
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Reply #27 - Feb 15th, 2009 at 1:17am

macca22au   Offline
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Where are we now.

I overclocked the i7 940 to 3.45ghz with a BClock of 157 staying below 80c.

But performance was still unacceptable in terms of tugs and stutters.

So I enabled HT in the BIOS.  Stutters worse, and as Nick predicted temps went through the roof.

Therefore I quickly disabled HT, but then completely deleted the fsx.cfg file and allowed it to regenerate.   All I added back was the Disable Preload.

And the flying is the smoothest it has been with very high settings.

Live and learn.  All that messing with Affinity Mask, Bufferpools and TBM seemed to make things worse, and for once the default config is better.
 
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Reply #28 - Feb 15th, 2009 at 1:35pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
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macca22au wrote on Feb 15th, 2009 at 1:17am:
Where are we now.

I overclocked the i7 940 to 3.45ghz with a BClock of 157 staying below 80c.

But performance was still unacceptable in terms of tugs and stutters.

So I enabled HT in the BIOS.  Stutters worse, and as Nick predicted temps went through the roof.

Therefore I quickly disabled HT, but then completely deleted the fsx.cfg file and allowed it to regenerate.   All I added back was the Disable Preload.

And the flying is the smoothest it has been with very high settings.

Live and learn.  All that messing with Affinity Mask, Bufferpools and TBM seemed to make things worse, and for once the default config is better.



All those tweaks are "Try and see" there is no such thing as "one size fits all" in the FSX.cfg, although TBM 70 I have always found to be a constant with Disable Preload,... but as I said, your mileage may vary


 
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Reply #29 - Feb 15th, 2009 at 11:56pm

macca22au   Offline
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I accept that, Nick, and I am eternally grateful.  Without you - as I have said once before - I would have abandoned FSX about a month after it went commercial.

I am commuting at the moment for work reasons, so it won't be until next weekend that I can try the TBM 70 tweak.

(I suspect I am chronologically older than you, but not to work seems a curious situation in which to be.  But with my advanced years and the present financial situation, contracts are not necessarily close to home.)

Therefore, I have decided to stay with the i7 940 until Intel's next 'tock', or should I simply wait and buy a cheaper 965 when the market price inevitably falls?   It is a serious question, but not one that needs any answer in the short-term.

And seeing I have wandered off topic, my view is, that CPU technology will in two to three years will be sufficiently powerful, that all of the clumsiness of FSX will be overcome by the next two generations of processors.  

Which in turn means that whatever MS decides to do with the franchise will be increasingly less important as the hardware, and the commercial and free-ware worlds will simply adapt to whatever the development situation happens to be, and make the simulation better and better.

On the other hand I do believe that this is a design challenge that will never be completed.  Why?  Because we can never hold any one - in fact none - of the variables constant, so growth and change will and must occur.  Poor old Moore is likely to be with us for a long time yet!  Logically there must be an end, but pragmatically it seems still far away.
 
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