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Textures assigned to panels, etc. (Read 1444 times)
Reply #15 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 7:51pm

brettt777   Offline
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Also, could you explain what the "file=" and "texture=" entries are in a VC? Which one are the gauges actualy attatched to, or are they on something completely different? And why do some VCxx have texture but no file, or nothing at all? Again I am sorry for all the questions but I hate not understanding how something works.
 
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Reply #16 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 7:57pm

Hagar   Offline
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brettt777 wrote on Dec 31st, 2008 at 7:42pm:
Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 31st, 2008 at 6:26pm:
All of the "textures" (they're textures after the model is compiled)(materials in Gmax), in the Texture folder are for the 3D model.

The bitmaps in the panel folder are 2D images for the 2D panel.. they have nothing to do with the VC . The VC is as much a model as the plane itself. It's 3-dimensional and needs to be textured.



So does that mean that the VC will only look at bmp's or dds's in the texture folder and never look at the panel folder at all?

This seems to be getting a tad complicated. I'm assuming the principle is basically the same in FSX as in previous versions of FS.

The VC is part of the 3D visual model & the relevant textures are in the Texture folder. The VC gauges (in what we used to call the DVC) are "projected" onto a transparent screen just in front of the panel texture. The transparent screen is the texture prefixed $ in Panel.cfg. This texture doesn't actually exist although I've seen them included with some aircraft, presumably for reference when placing the VC gauges.
 

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Reply #17 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:02pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
So does that mean that the VC will only look at bmp's or dds's in the texture folder and never look at the panel folder at all?




Yes .. none of the bitmaps in the panel folder are used in the VC

They are nothing mmore than 2D background images for the 2D panel..  they aren't mapped to anything.

NOW.. the panel.cfg file (in the panel folder) is where the the VC gauge layout is defined.. and the "never see it after compiling" texture for the gauge material is listed there too. But it's only used by Gmax.. and can be completely discarded after compiling.
 
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Reply #18 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:07pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
The VC is part of the 3D visual model & the relevant textures are in the Texture folder. The VC gauges (in what we used to call the DVC) are "projected" onto a transparent screen just in front of the panel texture. The transparent screen is the texture prefixed $ in Panel.cfg. This texture doesn't actually exist although I've seen them included with some aircraft, presumably for reference when placing the VC gauges.


It's changed a little.. though it's not a new change because this technique was used in fs9.. in that you don't use a "screen" at the panel. You use individual polygon screens for each gauge. If you use the old "big screen" method.. gauge resolution suffers greatly..
 
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Reply #19 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:08pm

brettt777   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:02pm:
Quote:
So does that mean that the VC will only look at bmp's or dds's in the texture folder and never look at the panel folder at all?




Yes .. none of the bitmaps in the panel folder are used in the VC

They are nothing mmore than 2D background images for the 2D panel..  they aren't mapped to anything.

NOW.. the panel.cfg file (in the panel folder) is where the the VC gauge layout is defined.. and the "never see it after compiling" texture for the gauge material is listed there too. But it's only used by Gmax.. and can be completely discarded after compiling.


So this texture, the $textureA at the bottom of a VC entry,  that is listed there but doesn't actualy exist is assigned to a part of a model but you don't ever see it, just the gauges that are projected there, is that somewhat close? What is the file= that is sometimes listed at the top of a VC entry? What does that one do?
 
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Reply #20 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:17pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
Again I am sorry for all the questions but I hate not understanding how something works.


No sorries allowed  Cheesy   Asking is how we learn this stuff. I'm sorry in that I'm not explaining things clearly. Most of the difficulty in grasping this, is that you're biting off a BIG chunk of stuff to understand..  Focus on one little thing at a time and then move on  Smiley
 
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Reply #21 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:21pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
So this texture, the $textureA at the bottom of a VC entry,  that is listed there but doesn't actualy exist is assigned to a part of a model but you don't ever see it, just the gauges that are projected there, is that somewhat close? What is the file= that is sometimes listed at the top of a VC entry? What does that one do?


That's close enough for now. Think of the $ texture as a big picture of all the gauges (kinda like a fuselage texture has many parts on it).. and parts of that texture are mapped to little polygons in the VC model.. and that's what you see as the gauge.
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:32pm

brettt777   Offline
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Okay, I think I understand. So I can't just pick a particular texture that I know is at a certain place in the VC and assign a gauge to it. It has to be one of these special invisible or non-existent textures, right?
 
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Reply #23 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 8:44pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Correct...   It's not like the 2D panel background bitmap where you can just place a gauge. The nearest thing you can do, is swap a gauge. Like.. if you want to put a VOR where an NDB is.. you can just go into the panel.cfg file and change the name of the gauge. You gotta be careful on sizing though. I make most of my gauge polygons bigger than they need to be, so you'd have a little flexibility with one of my models. But if you go too big, or move the starting coordinates too much, you'll get into an area on that $ texture that is already mapped to some othe polygon, and it will overlap onto that gauge's area.

The main advantage to this method (as opposed to one big "screen"), is that you can place gauges all over the place... and at any angle. The HSI can stand out away from the panel more than the the attitude indicator... and the compass can be on it's own level (and angle).. or a clock can be modeled into the center of a yoke (the clock polygon would be a child part to the yoke)... the possibilites are limitless.
 
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Reply #24 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 10:15pm

brettt777   Offline
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Okay then back to the original question. Using one of these mdl viewers, is it possible to see which invisible texture is assigned where?
What is different about these textures other than they are invisible?
 
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Reply #25 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 10:20pm

brettt777   Offline
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And what does the "file=$texture_A.bmp" do if the texture= line is the one the gauges actualy go to? Some have it and some don't.

[Vcockpit02]
file=$texture_A.bmp    <----what is this line for?
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0                    <----what does this line mean?
pixel_size=512,512
texture=$texture_A    <----this line determines which invisible texture the gauge goes to...?



 
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Reply #26 - Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:11am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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brettt777 wrote on Dec 31st, 2008 at 10:15pm:
Okay then back to the original question. Using one of these mdl viewers, is it possible to see which invisible texture is assigned where?
What is different about these textures other than they are invisible?


Depends on the viewer. If it can convert (decompile) the model into its original format (say, Gmax).. yes. You could look at the materials page and see which parts (or polygons) are listed as having the $filename assigned to them. And if you have access to the original $filename (doubtful), you could make sure it was in a format viewable in the modeling program and actually SEE the mapping.

However.. most of these decompilers are pretty rough.. in that they "can" give you access to the model, but they tend to collapse modifier stacks (where you see/edit the mapping), and lose material information.


**they're only invisible, because that's how they're defined in the material editor.. they are quite visible inside of the modeling program (they HAVE to be, for you to manipulate them)
 
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Reply #27 - Jan 1st, 2009 at 11:24am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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brettt777 wrote on Dec 31st, 2008 at 10:20pm:
And what does the "file=$texture_A.bmp" do if the texture= line is the one the gauges actualy go to? Some have it and some don't.

[Vcockpit02]
file=$texture_A.bmp    <----what is this line for?
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0                    <----what does this line mean?
pixel_size=512,512
texture=$texture_A    <----this line determines which invisible texture the gauge goes to...?






I've never used "File="  so I'm not sure.. Here is a typical entry from one of my models..

[VCockpit01]
size_mm=1024,1024
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$gauges
background_color=0,0,0

I think "visible=0" is unused in a VC too.. like it's a leftover form 2D windows ..  meaning that its default is to be invisible (like a pop-up radio-stack or GPS).
 
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Reply #28 - Jan 1st, 2009 at 1:23pm

brettt777   Offline
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Okay I have found a viewer that will show me what texture is assigned to what surface, but will it tell me about these special textures that are invisible? What else is special about them besides they are invisible? Do they start out as regular bitmaps or dds files and then made transparent?
 
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Reply #29 - Jan 1st, 2009 at 1:58pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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brettt777 wrote on Jan 1st, 2009 at 1:23pm:
Okay I have found a viewer that will show me what texture is assigned to what surface, but will it tell me about these special textures that are invisible? What else is special about them besides they are invisible? Do they start out as regular bitmaps or dds files and then made transparent?


The best way to visualize what the $filename is...  is to think of it as a perfectly square, 2D panel.. with all the gauges on it, in no particular order. The only way I've ever created one, is with PanelStudio.. and then literally take a screen shot of the big, square panel... that becomes $filename.bmp (after cropping and resizing to 1024X1024)  ,  because it's a near perfect representaition of the gauge layout (defined in a panel.cfg)

There is nothing special about the $filename.bmp  It's a normal bitmap. The invisibility comes form the material editor,, where you not only set it to transparent by default, but designate it as a VC panel material. 

Then, by UVW mapping specific areas of that material to specific polygons, you get your individual gauges.

 
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