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5 Best Aircraft Ever Made (Read 4794 times)
Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 3:10pm
ShaneG
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I turned into a Martian!
Posts: 10000
Just to have some Yin with the Yang
, what are the 5 Best aircraft ever made and why?
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
2. General Aviation
3. Military Other
4. Military Fighters
5. Military Bombers
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Reply #1 -
Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 3:28pm
Dr.bob7
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Cessna 172SP a true aircraft
Castle Rock Colorado
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I think we should add categories and purposes for the best 5 but ok...
The Cessna 172 One of tht most popular GA aircraft ever and one of my favorites to fly (with 5.4 hours in it
)
airliner wise the 737 its a real workhorse.
CRJ-700 ive flown so many short routes in this airliner probably 50% of my flights on airliners have been on a CRJ-700
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Reply #2 -
Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 3:34pm
ShaneG
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Categories added but open to amending.
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Reply #3 -
Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 4:46pm
C
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Earth
Posts: 13144
ShaneG wrote
on Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 3:10pm:
Just to have some Yin with the Yang
, what are the 5 Best aircraft ever made and why?
Mmm
Quote:
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
C-47, C-130, C-17... Mmm, I'd love to say both the Dak and the Herc, but for being a genuine heavylift
tactical
transport one would have to say C-17...
...but, thinking commercially, the most revolutionary has to be the DC-3/C-47 Dakota/Skytrain.
Quote:
2. General Aviation
Tough. Probably has to be a Cessna.
152, possibly sent more pilots solo that any other aeroplane?
Quote:
3. Military Other
VC-10 K3. Flying fuel tank!
Possibly could go to a new aeroplane - the Pilatus PC-21 - potentially the most revolutionary training aircraft ever made. Potentially - if you can afford to adapt your flying training system to it.
Quote:
4. Military Fighters
Hawker Hurricane. Hawker could have directed their attentions elsewhere, particularly with the concurrent success of the Spitfire during its development, leaving Britain very exposed. Had the BoB consequently been lost, the world may no be a very different place.
Hawker also did what so many other companies failed to do. They constructed a modern aeroplane using the traditional old fashioned methods - formers, logerons, stringers, fabric - and yet unlike so many others (such as Morane and Dewoitine in France), it was nearly a match for its foe.
Quote:
5. Military Bombers
Avro Lancaster. The ultimate bombing machine in the European theatre, and now a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice of 55,000 men of the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, NZ, France, and countless other countries who are members of the commonwealth. And of course, the USA.
Add the that it operated at medium level, high level and low level, against every sort of target, and could carry a range of bombs from a standard 500lb up to the 22,000lb grand slam (over two thirds of the aircraft's empty weight!).
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Last Edit: Dec 19
th
, 2008 at 6:10am by C
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Reply #4 -
Dec 18
th
, 2008 at 7:03pm
An-225
Ex Member
1. Cargo/Transport
C-130 - over the C-17, as they were manufactured in large numbers, and many different variants. There is a version of the C-130 for everything - weather, tanker, gunship (can of whoop-ass), skis, stretched and limited AEW use. The standard C-130 could also drop a Daisy Cutter.
2. General Aviation
Cessna 152 - as above.
3. Military Other
KC-10 (sorry Charlie!)
Has only had one crash, making it the safest jet in USAF service. Larger fuel capacity than the KC-135.
4. Military Fighters
Close call between the Su-27 and F-15.
The standoff capability of the F-15E is just amazing. One F-15E took down an Mi-24 Hind by firing a (presumably) LANTIRN laser into its cockpit. Its night-capability is better than the Su-27 too. Although, the Su-27 is better at high-alpha maneuvers (compared to any F-15), its avionics can't really compare.
5. Military Bombers
B-52
Arguably, it was one of the best planes ever built. Used as the mothership for many NASA missions, capability to fire standoff missiles such as the AGM-28. Can hold a large number of Mk 82s, and even ALCMs. It was suited to low-level flying in instrument conditions, but could be used equally well at altitude.
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Reply #5 -
Dec 22
nd
, 2008 at 2:32am
Vodka Burner
Ex Member
Quote:
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
Boeing C-17. High payload, long range, short field capable.
Quote:
2. General Aviation
Plenty of nice planes. I like the Mooney M20TN Acclaim. Beautiful aircraft, oh yeah, and 235 knot cruise speed.
Quote:
3. Military Other
Boeing 737 AEW&C Wedgetail. The radar on the this thing is capable of tracking thousands of targets, from aircraft, to ships, over two hundred and forty nautical miles away. Operates in L-band which is what GPS receivers use and Russian data-links use; reported to be abled to disrupt datalinks, implant false targets, block GPS signals, and of course, gather intelligence. Anti radiation missiles are useless as it has minimal sidelobes and an agile, focused, beam. All data can be linked to other platforms like the F-35 and F-18E/F.
(source: Australian Defense; Pg. 69 Vol. 164 No. 12)
Quote:
4. Military Fighters & 5. Military Bomber
F-18E/F Block II / III Super Hornet... 5th generation sensor fusion right out of X-32 programme, netcentric, fully digital Radar Warning Receiver, reduced RCS, AN/ALE-55 fiber optic towed decoys, 3rd Generation AN/APG-79 AESA radar capable of satellite quality images from over a hundred miles out and datalinking using the radar. Low maintainence costs and relatively cheap. Aim-120D, and JASSM, & JSOW capable. Capable of handling any threat in the near future. By most accounts superior to Strike Eagle except in kinematics.
F-35 Fighting Seal... (this baby clubs back)... all advantages of the Super Hornet (except ALE-55), but much more fuel, very stealthy, internal weapons, HMD, EOTS, and EODAS. 4 internal missiles as IOC with room for 6 or even 8, probably by Block 5 late next decade. Less maintainence, similar price when measured in 2008 dollars. Capable of handling any threat in the for the foreseeable future. It's a pity these two jets have gotten a tarnished reputation by those who are known singularly, collectively and contemptuously as "screen scrapers" by those who do have real access to the material.
F-22 Raptor Block 30. Very stealthy, lots of fuel, very fast, very maneuverable, internal weapons load, jaw dropping sensor fusion, with jaw dropping sensors. Most capable, aircraft in the sky without a doubt. All advantages of F-18E/F radar, but more powerful and more T/R modules.
Quote:
Title: FIGHTER EW.
Date: 7/1/2000; Publication: Journal of Electronic Defense; Author: Sweetman, Bill.
...
The fighter's classic tool for situational awareness -- a powerful search radar -- can render its stealth characteristics moot. The solution to this problem on the F-22 is sensor fusion. The principal sensors are the Northrop Grumman APG-77 radar and the Sanders ALR-94 passive receiver system.
One vital difference between an AESA and any other radar that has a single transmitter (including a passive electronically steered array) is that the AESA is capable of operating as several separate radars simultaneously. An AESA can change its beamform very readily, and its receiver segments can operate in a passive or receive-only mode. Unlike a mechanical antenna, too, its revisit rates are not constrained by the antenna drive, and it can concurrently revisit different points within its field of regard at different rates. The F-22 has space, weight and cooling provision for auxiliary side arrays on either side of the nose. If installed, these would provide radar coverage over almost 270[degrees]. The ALR-94, meanwhile, is the most effective passive system ever installed on a fighter. Tom Burbage, former head of the F-22 program at Lockheed Martin, has described it as "the most technically complex piece of equipment on the aircraft."
The F-22 has been described as an antenna farm. Indeed, it would resemble a signals-intelligence (SIGINT) platform were it not for the fact that the 30-plus antennas are all smoothly blended into the wings and fuselage. The ALR-94 provides 360[degrees] coverage in all bands, with both azimuth and elevation coverage in the forward sector.
A target which is using radar to search for the F-22 or other friendly aircraft can be detected, tracked and identified by the ALR-94 long before its radar can see anything, at ranges of 250 nm or more. As the range closes, but still above 100 nm, the APG-77 can be cued by the ALR-94 to search for other aircraft in the hostile flight. The system uses techniques such as cued tracking: since the track file, updated by the ALR-94, can tell the radar where to look, it can detect and track the target with a very narrow beam, measuring as little as 2[degrees] by 2[degrees] in azimuth and elevation. One engineer calls it "a laser beam, not a searchlight. We want to use our resources on the high-value targets. We don't track targets that are too far away to be a threat."
High-priority emitters -- such as fighter aircraft at close range -- can be tracked in real time by the ALR-94. In this mode, called narrowband interleaved search and track (NBILST), the radar is used only to provide precise range and velocity data to set up a missile attack. If a hostile aircraft is injudicious in its use of radar, the ALR-94 may provide nearly all the information necessary to launch an AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile (AAM) and guide it to impact, making it virtually an anti-radiation AAM.
NCTR is a highly classified area. One of the few known techniques is jet-engine modulation, which involves analyzing the raw radar return for the characteristic beat produced by a combination of the radar-pulse frequency and the rotating blades of the engine. This technique is already used on operational radars (including the APG-70 in the F-15) but is vulnerable to countermeasures and dependent on target aspect.
Other NCTR techniques involve very precise range measurements. If the target's orientation is known, the distribution of the signature over very small range bins can yield a range profile which is characteristic of a certain aircraft type. It is possible that the F-22, which has a great deal of onboard processing power -- as well as a flexible, frequency-agile radar -- is designed to use an NCTR technique of this kind.
Unlike the Eurofighter Typhoon , the F-22 does not have an electro-optical (EO) system for target identification. F-22 program managers have said consistently that they believe that the F-22 pilot will be able to identify any target -- emitting or not -- beyond visual range (BVR). "We are confident that we can demonstrate to our leadership that we know what's out there, and that we will operate with rules of engagement that reflect that fact," USAF program manager Gen Mike Mushala remarked at a conference in 1997.
The ALR-94 drives the F-22's defensive displays. The system determines the bearing, range and type of the threat, and then computes the distance at which the enemy radar can detect the F-22. The pilot is the decision-maker and is provided with timely, graphic information to guide defensive maneuvers. On the main defense display, usually shown on the left-hand screen in the cockpit, threat surface-to-air missile (SAM) and airborne early warning (AEW) radars are surrounded by circles that show their computed effective range. On the right-hand attack display, fighter radars are shown as blue beams extending towards the F-22's position.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9268-start-0.html
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Reply #6 -
Dec 22
nd
, 2008 at 3:54pm
Ivan
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Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
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Posts: 6058
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
747 family
2. General Aviation
An-2... SUV of the sky
3. Military Other
4. Military Fighters
Flanker NG (Su-30, Su-35, Su-37, Su-34). No matter if it has crappy dials or not, the plane is the same, and those steam gauges are there for a reason... they dont break at -40C, while LCD screens do
5. Military Bombers
Tu-160, par with B-1B
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #7 -
Dec 22
nd
, 2008 at 9:44pm
ShaneG
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Colonel
I turned into a Martian!
Posts: 10000
My own choices:
1. Commercial: 737(all variants) This thing is the B-52 of the civilian world, it will be around long past it's expected death date, and has probably flown everywhere in the world by now. 90% of my travels in the air were on some version of it.
2 General Aviation: Gotta go with the Piper Cub here, it's beauty is in it's simplicity.
3. Military others: SR-71, nothing has touched it's 'in service' performance records yet (that I am currently aware of) And I don't believe anything will in my lifetime.
4. Military Fighters: Su-47, perfection of a perfect design series, a real shame it never saw mass production. second choice goes to the F-14, the phoenix missile system was the calling card of this one. Why they never put that on any other craft still confounds me.(unless it was purely cost related, but the B-2 nullifies that opinion)
5.Military Bomber: Tie- B-17/B-52, B-17 because it could take damn near any amount of punishment and still bring it's crew home, and the B-52 because it will never go away, No other plane ( that I am currently aware of) has remained in active service as long as it has, and I don't see it going anywhere in the next 50 years either.
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Reply #8 -
Dec 23
rd
, 2008 at 12:23am
An-225
Ex Member
A comment on the Su-47 (and the AIM-54):
I love Flankers, so this isn't biased, but the Su-47 was not a perfection of the series at all, it was merely a technology demonstrator. There was no real reason for it to go into mass production.
And the AIM-54.
The AIM-54 was actually not an expensive missile, in comparison to, say, the AIM-120. However, that logic isn't reasonable - the B-2 is an airplane, to be manufactured in relatively small numbers. The AIM-54 is a missile, to be manufactured in quantity for rearming etc.
The AIM-54 also came from the AIM-47 Falcon family, and it is an outdated weapon. The Navy went multirole with the F-14, and as such it was able to dogfight and intercept at range. The US Air Force has fighters dedicated to such tasks, and as such, they have no need for long-range weapons.
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Reply #9 -
Dec 23
rd
, 2008 at 12:26am
Vodka Burner
Ex Member
Ivan wrote
on Dec 22
nd
, 2008 at 3:54pm:
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
747 family
2. General Aviation
An-2... SUV of the sky
3. Military Other
4. Military Fighters
Flanker NG (Su-30, Su-35, Su-37, Su-34). No matter if it has crappy dials or not, the plane is the same, and those steam gauges are there for a reason... they dont break at -40C, while LCD screens do
5. Military Bombers
Tu-160, par with B-1B
All Flanker NG use LCD screens.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Fullback.html
Difficult to fuse sensors with mechanical systems... special made LCD screens can indeed function at -40, most can be stored at that temp.
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Reply #10 -
Dec 23
rd
, 2008 at 5:29pm
Ivan
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Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
Gender:
Posts: 6058
APA mag shows a indigenous production cockpit... all main instruments are old dials. exports can have the main controls changed to LCD on customer demand.
The screens are either low-temp LCDs or short-tube CRT devices
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #11 -
Dec 25
th
, 2008 at 4:19pm
Vuikag
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is it christmas yet?
Boonies ,Oregon
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IMHO...
(I guess this list is based more on importance then best)
1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport
Douglas DC-3/C-47
2. General Aviation
Piper Cub
3. Military Other
Bell UH-1 Iriquios.
4. Military Fighters
MiG-21
5. Military Bombers
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
ShaneG wrote
on Dec 22
nd
, 2008 at 9:44pm:
Su-47, perfection of a perfect design series, a real shame it never saw mass production.
The Sukhoi PAK-FA, Russias new 5th Generation Fighter (though still in the workshop) is going to use stuff from the Su-47 and the MiG 1.44.
heres a couple pictures, the Fuselage at least is based of the Su-47.
http://dissidentex.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/t-50pakfa.jpg
http://uploads.abovetopsecret.com/ats15787_PAK_FA.jpg
http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/files/su_50_pak_fa_178.png
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3076/medium/PAK-FA21.JPG
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Reply #12 -
Dec 26
th
, 2008 at 4:29am
Vodka Burner
Ex Member
Final configuration for the PAKFA is not known. Those are artists impressions.
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Reply #13 -
Dec 26
th
, 2008 at 9:26am
ShaneG
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I turned into a Martian!
Posts: 10000
Thanks for posting that Vuikag! I hadn't even heard of that one yet, hope I can find one for FS soon.
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Reply #14 -
Dec 28
th
, 2008 at 11:23pm
specter177
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Colonel
Check out the Maverick
Flying Car!
I-TEC - X35
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1. Douglas DC-3: This is the aircraft that made air travel affordable. Without it, it would take another twenty years before air travel became popular, if at all.
2. Piper J-3: The 172 may have been built more, but no aircraft has been more instrumental in starting the GA revolution than he venerable J-3.
3. Lockheed C-130: One of the most successful military cargo planes, able to go almost anywhere, from pole to pole. It also has many different variations including special operations and even ground attack.
4. North American P-51: Without this amazing fighter, Allied bombers would have kept taking severe losses, lengthening the war, and allowing Germany to continue developing advanced technologies, maybe even turning the tide of the war.
5. Boeing B-52: This aircraft has to be the best bomber, as by the time it is retired, the
youngest
of them will be almost 80 years old. That is comparable to a P-26 still being used in combat today. Already serving with distinction in 3 major wars and innumerable smaller conflicts, this behemoth has been continually upgraded in since its introduction in 1952.
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Reply #15 -
Jan 5
th
, 2009 at 4:46am
machineman9
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Nantwich, England
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1. Commercial /Cargo / Transport - Boeing 747
2. General Aviation - Does Baron 58 count?
3. Military Other - Grob Tutor / BAe Hawk - Fantastic trainers!
4. Military Fighters - Eurofighter Typhoon
5. Military Bombers - Either Lancaster, B1b (looks great) or F117 if that counts.
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Reply #16 -
Jan 8
th
, 2009 at 4:33am
Anxyous
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I can has cheezburger?
Posts: 2670
1. Boeing 747. This beast has proven its worth for so many years, and is just plain beautiful.
2. Cessna 172. Really goes without saying for me, great instrumentation, great stability, easy to handle etc.
3. Gonna go with the SR-71 here.
4. P-51D. Most beautiful piston fighter ever, with fantastic capabilities. It was a compromise, it didn't do anything better than certain aircraft, but it was still fantastic. But keep watching the F-22 I tell ya'...
5. A tie between the B-52 and the B-2 here. The B-52 has proven its worth time and time again, whilst the B-2 has other fantastic capabilities. Service length would be the B-52's winning factor, whilst stealth would be that of the B-2....
Just gotta make a note about the F-35... It might be incredibly capable, with the most sophisticated sensor package, but still... if you break it down:
Single engine. The navy doesn't want a small single engine plane, it wants big dual-engine fighters. If you lose that single engine, you're in big trouble.
Small payload. Internal, but very small.
Lack of cannon on some types.
Stealth is a plus, the the Raptor is stealthy, and even that has been 'killed' by a Super Hornet.
And then there's export. Any other countries buying the F-35 will most likely have to deal with degraded stealth and whatnot. Along with that, the software can only be upgraded by sending the plane back to the factory, because the countries can't get the key for it.
Great plane, but not necessary IMO...
&&
&&
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Reply #17 -
Jan 21
st
, 2009 at 12:52am
Vodka Burner
Ex Member
Quote:
Single engine. The navy doesn't want a small single engine plane, it wants big dual-engine fighters. If you lose that single engine, you're in big trouble.
The total order of F-35Bs and Cs is 680 aircraft. It's pretty clear they don't mind a single engined plane. Besides, F-16 aircraft powered by the PW F100-229 have not had a single engine related loss. The -229 was developed from the F119, which the F135 was also developed from. F110-129 have only had a couple of losses.
Just because it happens one or twice in peacetime, and maybe once from combat damage, doesn't mean it's relevant. It is not.
Quote:
Small payload. Internal, but very small.
In full stealth, clean, package, it is small. However, that is designed for first day of the war missions. When you add crap to the outside you can conceivably have 14 air to air missiles. When JDRADM enters service, the internal payload will go up dramatically, as will internal Air to air loadout at BLOCK 5.
Quote:
Lack of cannon on some types.
Hang an external one on it? The Harrier uses external cannons.
Quote:
Stealth is a plus, the the Raptor is stealthy, and even that has been 'killed' by a Super Hornet.
Well all legacy aircraft such as the F-16, F-15, and even the F-18 have killed the F-22. You know, in situations where the red force has already lost a few hundred aircraft to the F-22. Or, in situations where the Red forces can respawn, and outnumber the F-22 2 - 1 WVR? Those kind of situations? Much like the single engine, just because it may happen a couple of times, doesn't mean it's relevant. It isn't.
Not saying it is invincible, newer radar technology such as bistatic systems, low frequency radar, and datalinks will help detect sheath. But it truely is a massive advantage and is one of the things that separates 4.5th Generation with 5th Generation; it truly changes how we fight.
Quote:
And then there's export. Any other countries buying the F-35 will most likely have to deal with degraded stealth and whatnot. Along with that, the software can only be upgraded by sending the plane back to the factory, because the countries can't get the key for it.
Actually, there is little to no evidence that JSF partners will have degraded aircraft. It has only been said they will get a 'different' version of the JSF. This could include anti - tampering technology, or perhaps, like in the Norway JSF, a parachute. Why do we have to update the software? What we do need, however, is a way to configure the sensor suite. Given the Norway JSF briefing included a 'Surveillance Mission', I presume it will.
Quote:
Great plane, but not necessary IMO...
Problem is, something really needs to replace our legacy aircraft. They're grounded or falling from the sky.
Problem with B-2 is the cost. US$44.75 billion. That, for 21 airplanes that have an average mission capable rate of 45%, tells me the moment the number of aircraft was cut to 21, the whole programme should of been cancelled.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06141.pdf
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st
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