Simviation Forum - Att: Nick, Hardware Question and tweakin the Q6600

Reply #15 - Dec 12^th, 2008 at 2:18pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

you are only running DDR2 800 with those sticks @ 5-5-5 so your not taking any advantage of them since they should be running 1066 5-5-5

and

you may find out because you are using 4 sticks @ 1066 the system raises their timing to 6-6-6... and... you can be unstable with 4 sticks @ 1066 5-5-5 so there is a lot to consider because of the 4 sticks.

I would probably set the clock up with 2 sticks and then install the other 2 in order to see if timing and stability remain the same

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Reply #16 - Dec 14^th, 2008 at 1:50pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Rune S wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 3:41am:

Ouch, That hit hard, Tongue

So I won't get to the "FSX-Zone" easiliy then Grin

What would be the best investment considering my existing setup, what should I change the most, whats the worst part/parts?
I don't think I can afford the q9650 @3,0Ghz, it's a bit pricy..it's 530$ for a demo-used one Sad

and and 670$ for a new one here in Norway Shocked

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What about this mainboard? http://www.multicom.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:1717165;c:101101
With some DDR3 ram of good quality.. would that be something to put my money on? Thats the place I ordered my1000w chill innovation PSU
you see, and i have around 200$ to use there now..

Would 2x1024 GB DDR3-ram of 1333,1600 or 1800 speed be bether than 4gb of ram on DDR2-ram 1066?
would my q6600 support this with the right overclocked speed(I mean with the fastest latency's and right multiplier to get this system sing)?

Perhaps also go for a Windows XP-64 OEM instead.. instead of the windowsxp home OEM I have now..?

I have the possibility to buy these Mushkin - ram in Norway http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkter.aspx?action=sok&sokval=mushkin

How about a Vraptor S-ATA 150 or 300?

Just advice the best combination of parts or component to choose instead of those I have now..?? But I don't want change the whole setup(just a few) as I can not afford that, just the worst part/parts or component
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Appologize for asking many question again,tried to keep them to a minimum this time.. Embarrassed

NickN, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Your advice is highly appreciated.
I know There are other places which you can ask about hardware and tweaking, But they are not specific for FSX.
Thats the reason we ask you the "SIM-Guru" for our questions, Because we know that it will work in FS/FSX afterwards!

cheers

EDIT: I have found a few posts where have you posted on SimV and other places wich I consider a goldmine!!! Great .. alot of posts on overclocking and timings..

And The Noctua NH-U12-P, is using a 120mm Fan, but I think I will change the fan to a: high-flow fan with around 70-90CFM airflow like a Yate Loon, Panaflow or Scyte Wink

According to tests on benchmark-reviews this cooler is fantastic with a highflow fan like a yate Loon..
I will also change my case to this one I think: Antec gamer300

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I ALSO HIGHLY REGRET NOT FINDING THIS SITE BEFORE I BOUGHT MY CURRENT SYSTEM ...that was a bummer..
Now I have to make up for all the mistakes I made, or live with them Cry

If you are considering purchasing a DDR3 system then you would be much better served purchasing a i7 system and clocking it. A good 1st gen DDR3 motherboard and memory product is not cheap. The amount you would spend on a decent system and memory could be placed into a i7 upgrade and the result in performance would be better on a clocked i7 well over even a Q9650

i7 is easier to clock than Q/DDR3 as well but still requires the proper heatsink and knowledge to accomplish the task

A i7 920 on 3x2GB DDR3 (tri-channel kit) 1600 1.65v 7-8-7 memory from muskin on a Asus P6T and using a Thermalright 120 Extreme 1366 will do close to if not 4GHz and out match the Q9650 and harder clock to deal with at the same speed

1st generation DDR3 (which is NOT the same as tri-channel i7 DDR3) clocking requires the better memory.. you will be spending more for 2x2GB 1st generation DDR3 than 6GB of 2ng generation high performance memory

You need to learn how to clock and i7 is easier to clock than Q. I have posted links to clocking i7 in the hardware forum.. one is a simple video which explains the process

http://www.linustechtips.com/how-to/ncix-tech-tips-19-intel-core-i7-video-overcl...

As for what you have now... changing to DDR3 and remaining on the Q6600 will net results if you chose the right parts and set it up right but it wont be as fast a a Q9650 or i7 clocked

As far as I am concerned there is no better hard drive to run FSX from than a Velociraptor as long as the drive is connected to a proper SATAII port or a PCIe SATAII card

The board I would chose would either be the Asus Rampage Extreme http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131334 ; or the Asus http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131276 ...in order to assure stability and ability to upgrade from 1600 up through DDR3 2000

If you upgrade to a Q9650 and wish to run it at its full ability you must run DDR3 1800 due to the BIOS math which means you must purchase these sticks for Quad stability in a high clock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145206

OCZ memory has issues with high clocking x38/x48 chipsets and can not be used above DDR3 1600

On the Q6600 and for the BIOS math you would be running DDR3 1600. The best sticks around are the Mushkin DDR3 1600 7-7-6 2x2GB product listed here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146799

You can not substitute cheap memory for high performance product when clocking DDR3

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Reply #17 - Dec 14^th, 2008 at 5:33pm

Rune S Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Gender:
Posts: 14

Ok, thank you so much

I am starting to wonder if going to i7(Nellie) is the best now,
I was fortunate to find a few dollar$ laying around, so I am really thinking of going the i7 route now... Roll Eyes

So if I get you right, could this be a excellent combination?
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mainboard    : http://multicom.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2196549;c:101204
Processor : http://multicom.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2185668;c:101203
Memory : http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfovnet.aspx?plid=115615
CPU-Cooler   : http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/u120ex-1366rt/product_cp...
or an Adapter to use my Noctua NH-U12P with a replacement 120mm or two, 80-120cfm fan/s

Hard-drive   : http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfoVnet.aspx?plid=108384
OS : Windows Xp 64bit-OEM , or Vista 64bit home Premium -OEM

Graphics-card : 8800-GTX
Powersupply : Pc Power & Cooling Silencer 750w
Sound-card : Soundblaster Audigy2
And a good PC-case with many case-fans..

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Would this beat my system, the Q6600 overclocked...
even if - i7 is not clocked or just slightly clocked? Would this i7-system that I chose, get me in the "Fsx-Zone" or past it Grin

Again, thank you soo much for answering theese questions..

« Last Edit: Dec 14^th, 2008 at 7:58pm by Rune S »

Best regards&&Rune S.

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Reply #18 - Dec 14^th, 2008 at 9:13pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Lets get something strait...

Going to i7 is not a miracle upgrade by any means but it is much better than Q DDR3

The only way that purchase would be worth the upgrade is if you commit to cloking the 920 to at minimum 3.6GHz, then I can see the expense and the learning curve on a new system being worth the investment

Not clocking a 920 will not overcome a Q6600. It will run a bit smoother however it will still be hindered at its base speed.

The 940 has a base clock of 2.96GHz which would make it much better than the Q6600 but it too needs to be clocked if you are looking for FSX performance

..and there is no such thing a a system that is "OUT' of the FSX zone

FSX is a poorly upgraded year 2000 rendering engine that is made like most Microsoft products... overblown on old technology and chokes the life out of Intel and Nvidia's flagship hardware even afer 2 years on the market Grin

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Reply #19 - Dec 15^th, 2008 at 3:40am

Rune S Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Gender:
Posts: 14

NickN wrote on Dec 14^th, 2008 at 9:13pm:

Lets get something strait...

Going to i7 is not a miracle upgrade by any means but it is much better than Q DDR3

The only way that purchase would be worth the upgrade is if you commit to cloking the 920 to at minimum 3.6GHz, then I can see the expense and the learning curve on a new system being worth the investment

Not clocking a 920 will not overcome a Q6600. It will run a bit smoother however it will still be hindered at its base speed.

The 940 has a base clock of 2.96GHz which would make it much better than the Q6600 but it too needs to be clocked if you are looking for FSX performance

..and there is no such thing a a system that is "OUT' of the FSX zone

FSX is a poorly upgraded year 2000 rendering engine that is made like most Microsoft products... overblown on old technology and chokes the life out of Intel and Nvidia's flagship hardware even afer 2 years on the market Grin

Hehe

Ok , I may have seen the i7 as a solution to all problems,
So the thing about FSX is that you have to clock it, no mather if you even have 5.5-6GHz, am I right ??? Huh

It has to be clocked(about 50% with the right ram-speed) to get in the FSX-zone?? Tongue

)

But anyway, was that a great i7 setup I picked there, or would you change that, I don't think I can Afford anymore than that for quite a while... Sad

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OR should I just get this:

http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=347131
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=378747
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=309922
And call it a day... hoping to reach 3.6Ghz with the correct ram-settings
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Right now I can't get no more than 3.420GHz it seems, and I cant set it to 1066speed for memory. I have no STRAP/LOCKED in Bios, only the FSB and theese settings:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=7740
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=7741
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=7742
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/477/8
[And the last one is about overclocking on this board showing mem-settings

Those settings are part of "the I can't follow that tread" here:http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1223693603

I was stable with Intel burn-test with extreme-load @3.42Ghz , and 1hour of OCCT-mixed in v2-Perestroika @3.42,
It did seem to have random-stability with FSX though, I have a feeling there is trouble with the ram.. It seemed like there was a reason for my poor overclock, I think 2 of those 1024X4 stick was acting up, removing two was better. But it seems strange that I can not set the right ram-speed(5-5-5-15 @ 1066) with them..so I don't loose performance,
Also It seemed to take around 1.45-1.49 of cpu-voltage, and around the same amount to the northbridge(MCH)..

Is this p35-board also acting up???? I am not certain what to doo now, that is why I ask all theese questions.
I do apollogize for that many questions directed at you ... Embarrassed

But you are a "FSX/Overclocking-Guru",
and you are also a "Hardware-Guru" with insight to technology...

Best regards&&Rune S.

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Reply #20 - Dec 15^th, 2008 at 12:31pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

yes your board is not good for clocking control

so even if you replace your memory with the 2x2GB 1066 Corsair I cant say if that board would run it stable.. It certainly appears to be very limited in clocking control

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Reply #21 - Dec 15^th, 2008 at 2:47pm

Rune S Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Gender:
Posts: 14

So how do I proceed from here, I feel I have cornered myself now Sad

I have some money, but I do not have enough to buy a complete i7-system yet.
I have 5200-NOK, and those prices are in NOK(Norwegian kroner)
And I also have 1400-NOK at that multicom-webshop from that (Chill Inovation psu)And I also have some money from that Corsair 750-NOK
But that is pretty much it.. Undecided

EDIT: I might get that 1400NOK refunded to my card, so most likely. I can use 7350-NOK(1042$) to go towards that upgrade

I had the possiblity to sell my system to a friend, but he did not want to have it anyway so that option vent away. But he did atleast buy some of my old hardware.. So It seems I am stuck with this system for now.. Cheesy

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But how was that i7-setup that put together below here, was it Good??
or are there some parts there that don't belong in a i7-system??

So if I get you right, could this be a excellent combination?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
mainboard : http://multicom.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2196549;c:101204
Processor : http://multicom.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2185668;c:101203
Memory : http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfovnet.aspx?plid=115615
CPU-Cooler : http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/u120ex-1366rt/product_cp...
or an Adapter to use my Noctua NH-U12P with a replacement 120mm or two, 80-120cfm fan/s

Hard-drive : http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfoVnet.aspx?plid=108384
OS : Windows Xp 64bit-OEM , or Vista 64bit home Premium -OEM

Graphics-card : 8800-GTX
Powersupply : Pc Power & Cooling Silencer 750w
Sound-card : Soundblaster Audigy2
And a good PC-case with many case-fans..

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Thanks Wink

« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2008 at 4:37am by Rune S »

Best regards&&Rune S.

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Reply #22 - Dec 16^th, 2008 at 1:08am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

The memory for that i7 system could be a bit better if you can get it

Look for 2x3GB DDR3 1600 1.65v 7-8-7 timing if you can find it

http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=730

Mushkin #998679 (3x2GB) XP3-12800

If not the Corsair you posted will work

If you go 920 you must clock the crap out of it.. at least 3.6 to 4GHz

The 940 will be easier to clock to 4G but the 920 will do it on the right PSU and heatsink

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Reply #23 - Dec 16^th, 2008 at 4:13am

Rune S Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Gender:
Posts: 14

Hi Nick,

Ok, so wich is best for i920/i940 - 1600,1800 or 2000 memory??

It's possible to buy theese:http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=420467
But the price is steep 4200-NOK , considering a i940 cost 5000-NOK(700$), Shocked

If 1600 , should I consider buying theese:http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=730 "from overseas(USA)" from the Mushkin-web-shop,
If those are the best 1600 ram "money can buy" for the i7, I then will consider it

Or should I just play the "waiting -game" for a i7-upgrade
Since the choice in DDR3-tripple ram is quite sparce at the moment.. Roll Eyes

Thanks

« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2008 at 6:44am by Rune S »

Best regards&&Rune S.

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Reply #24 - Dec 16^th, 2008 at 12:03pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

920 does have limits whith resspect to memory because the motherboard math on the memory multiplier is restricted with the 920 over the 940. Therefore 1600 memory is fine with 920 and even 940/965

i7 is new and over the next year there will be better memory coming out for it.

i7 clocking is different than Intel Quad and dual of the past. With i7 you do not use FSB to gain in a clock and the memory speed is not controlled the same with i7 either. There is a memory multiplier which is driven by BCLOCK, the same value used to increase the CPU speed of the i7. With 920 and most motherboards there are only 2 memory multiplier choices to work with where with 940 that is expanded

In my opinion the next step up from DDR3 1600 would be DDR3 2000 which is not yet on the market. So I would not purchase 1866 Corsair memory and stick with 1600 on lower timing

Yes the stciks I posted are currently the best 1600 memory on the market. They will probably be available in your country soon as they were just released here.

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Reply #25 - Dec 17^th, 2008 at 2:46am

Rune S Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Gender:
Posts: 14

Quick question: What driver do you suggest for a XFX-7900GT-OC 256MB (ram in system 1-2GB DDR1) It Will be used most for fs2004, and fsx?? this is for my friend who bought my previous pc-parts

Ok, Thank you so Much for all theese tips, I really appreciate it

I will digest it and think about what to do,
But Now I will leave you alone. And I would just like to wish you a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year

(I know it's a bit early) but you deserve it.. Wink

Looking forward to that freebee you announced..
I really like yours and Anthony's tecnique used on GEX-Europe

Getting away from all that HD-crayze Lips Sealed