Simviation Forum - Gmax Mirror Option

Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:33pm

mantab Offline
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Hi Guys,
Could someone explain to me why it is that when I use the mirror option in gmax the part I want mirrored turns black maybe something I am not doing right. I am working on a fs2004 project if that is of any relevance.
Thank you Mantab

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Reply #1 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:46pm

N2056 Offline
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Mantab, I'm guessing you are doing what we all did at the start using Gmax. A picture is worth a thousand words Wink

Remember...This is Fun!

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Reply #2 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:53pm

mantab Offline
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Hi Guys,
Problem solved this may help someone coming across the same problem. The idea is DO NOT USE MIRROR OPTION IN THE MAIN MENU BAR, go to modify list on the far right and select the mirror option from there. Well it has worked for me so I am passing it on.

Regards Mantab

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Reply #3 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:05pm

mantab Offline
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Hi N2056,
   Man this is incredible at the same time you posted the reply I was posting the solution to the problem. I dont know what made me try mirroring via modifiers list I guess I was desperate but whatever thanks for your reply much appricated.
   This forum is absolutely the best as far as people willing to help others.
   Regards Mantab

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Reply #4 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:12pm

N2056 Offline
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No problem Cheesy

This is a very common issue that people new to Gmax run into. I think it is just human nature to go for the 'obvious' mirror button that is right up there in the toolbar. I think it's the classic initial Gmax "GOTCHA"!

Trust me...there will be others Wink

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Reply #5 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:13pm

Fr. Bill Offline
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Now, while you have it on your mind...

...open up the UI Configuration and...

REMOVE THAT ICON FROM THE TOOLBAR!!!

Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...

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Reply #6 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 8:31am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:13pm:

Now, while you have it on your mind...

...open up the UI Configuration and...

REMOVE THAT ICON FROM THE TOOLBAR!!!

So, what if you need to mirror a spline when you're doing a Shape Merge?

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #7 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:34am

Fr. Bill Offline
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Felix/FFDS wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 8:31am:

Fr. Bill wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:13pm:

Now, while you have it on your mind...

...open up the UI Configuration and...

REMOVE THAT ICON FROM THE TOOLBAR!!!

So, what if you need to mirror a spline when you're doing a Shape Merge?

The "Mirror Tool" is still available for use by drilling down through the top menu bar's dropdown picklists.

You are not deleting the tool, only choosing not to display the "shortcut icon" on the toolbar!

It really comes down to what happens most frequently:

1. You forget and click the Mirror Icon and screw up the part
2. You need to mirror a spline object prior to a Shape Merge

Bill
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Reply #8 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:23am

HarvesteR Offline
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you can use the main mirror tool on shapes and splines, AS LONG AS THEY DON`T HAVE SURFACES

the big problem there is that there's a bug that causes surface normals to be mirrored along with the geometry, making for that weird black inside-out 'feature' we get in FS...

and yes to avoid it, use the parametric mirror modifier...

ahh... one more note... sometimes, the mirror axis on this mirror modifier won't be aligned with the world axis, to solve that, select the part you want to mirror, goto utilities -> reset Xform, click reset...

the part's bounding box will now be oriented to the world axis, as if this part had been created the was it is... now you can throw a mirror modifier at it, and the mirror axis will be properly aligned

or... if you want to mirror multiple parts, you don't need to worry about this, because when you apply the mirror modifier to more than one part at once, it will automatically align with the world axis

just be careful resetting Xform on animated parts, they have a tendency to distort themselves... so make sure you're on frame 0 when doing that, so if anything goes wrong you can just delete the affected keyframes

Cheers

HarvesteR

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Reply #9 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:58am

Fr. Bill Offline
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HarvesteR wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:23am:

the big problem there is that there's a bug that causes surface normals to be mirrored along with the geometry, making for that weird black inside-out 'feature' we get in FS...

For "our" purposes, I suppose one might consider that a "bug," but to be completely accurate the "Mirror" tool's behavior is not a bug at all!

Considering that the Mirror tool's behavior has not changed one bit from Max5 through the current Max9 v11.0 were it a "bug" it surely would have been fixed... Grin

The surface normals of a Mirror(ed) object are filipped because that's what a mirror does! Wink

The "Mirror modifier" on the other hand does not flip surface normals, as it is intended to create symmetrically opposite objects.

It's a pity that the creators of Max/GMax chose to use the same "name" for two completely separate functions... Undecided

Bill
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Reply #10 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:33pm

HarvesteR Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:58am:

Considering that the Mirror tool's behavior has not changed one bit from Max5 through the current Max9 v11.0 were it a "bug" it surely would have been fixed... Grin

i would think that it's not actually a bug, neither a feature, but more like a limitation of the tool up to the latest version of Gmax...

i don't use Gmax anymore, now i use 3DsMax, which when exporting to FS with the Panda tool, has absolutely no trouble with the mirror button

so it possibly is a limitation of either the mirror tool in Gmax, or of the export module itself, that does not correct for his issue..

IDK... just my opinion on this matter Wink

Cheers

NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64

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Reply #11 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 11:27pm

Fr. Bill Offline
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HarvesteR wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:33pm:

Fr. Bill wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 10:58am:

Considering that the Mirror tool's behavior has not changed one bit from Max5 through the current Max9 v11.0 were it a "bug" it surely would have been fixed... Grin

i would think that it's not actually a bug, neither a feature, but more like a limitation of the tool up to the latest version of Gmax...

The Mirror tool's behavior is completely unchanged even in Max9 v11.x as I wrote previously. A cloned/mirrored part from Max9 run through the exporter and XtoMDL.exe will exhibit the same surface normal inversion as that which comes from GMax...

In any case, the solution is simple enough, so I suspect the proximate cause isn't really important in the larger scheme of the universe. Tongue

Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...

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Reply #12 - Nov 25^th, 2008 at 1:12pm

HarvesteR Offline
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you may be correct... now that i think of it, i have always avoided that mirror tool ever since i found out of it's strange effects upon surfaces... even in projects completely unrelated to FS (i guess i was a little traumatized)

but yes, the cause is irrelevant, and as we all know the answer to the grand scheme of things is 42 Wink

Cheers

NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64

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Reply #13 - Nov 28^th, 2008 at 3:34pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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HarvesteR wrote on Nov 25^th, 2008 at 1:12pm:

but yes, the cause is irrelevant, and as we all know the answer to the grand scheme of things is 42 Wink

Cheers

Earth is SAVED! The meaning of life has been found!

42

Felix/FFDS

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