Simviation Forum - F1 GP Spa: Your predictions

Reply #45 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 5:46am

Craig. Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Sep 7^th, 2008 at 10:02pm:

Craig. wrote on Sep 7^th, 2008 at 2:41pm:

eno wrote on Sep 7^th, 2008 at 2:27pm:

Craig ...... I don't think we need to get into the whole spy BS again. However even you have to admit that it looks like there's some sort of favouritism toward Ferrari and that given all the circumstances of the last couple of races it is becoming more and move evident.
I'm not saying that it's Ferrari's fault but I would go so far as to speculate about certain peoples motives and alleged "Nazi" leanings.

Like I said, I wont argue they are picking on Mclaren.
But I am just getting tired of people suggesting such as Spyro (not a personal attack) and various others that Ferrari are the ones going to the FIA and complaining. Today for instance Ferrari didn't even speak to FIA till they were summoned. They wern't going to complain and were quite happy to come out of the race with 8 points.
I dont like the FIA or their dictator leader and I certainly dont want his grubby dealings to be involved should Massa win the title.

The other problem here is the fact the FIA appoints an independant team of officials to each race. These ones seem to be 25 second penalty happy, look at the GP2 races as well, several exclusions and penalties.
Charlie Whiting was removed from his position as the lone guy handing down penalties because people cried that he wasn't being fair to teams.
End of the day without a major shake up in the FIA it'll always be the same.

As a side note, Mclaren have lodged their appeal, but there may not be an option to appeal depending on the rulebook.

Boo hoo?

I'd end up saying it just makes those making the claims look like sore losers when McRon and his puppet cant win to be honest. Wink

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Reply #46 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 10:15am

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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Lewis was doing what the rulebook says, give up the position, and he did.

If this penalty stands, we are indeed entering a sad era in F1.

BTW: How did everybody feel about Kimi putting the block on Massa on lap 1?

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Reply #47 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 2:41pm

expat Offline
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The Ruptured Duck wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 10:15am:

How did everybody feel about Kimi putting the block on Massa on lap 1?

All is fair in love and war, there is not enough between them points wise to make one or the other back off yet.............now is another matter of course.

Matt

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Reply #48 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 3:34pm

Craig. Offline
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This is from Massa.
Quote:

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained. If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter.

If what he says is true about the drivers meetings, then the stewards at least have a fair argument and Mclaren could struggle to win the appeal.
Also Mclaren are arguing that Lewis was behind Kimi when they crossed the line. Watch the video on youtube and you'll see Lewis is actually along side him with his front tyre behind Kimis front tyre.

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Reply #49 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 3:43pm

expat Offline
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Craig. wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 3:34pm:

This is from Massa.
Quote:

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained. If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter.

If what he says is true about the drivers meetings, then the stewards at least have a fair argument and Mclaren could struggle to win the appeal.
Also Mclaren are arguing that Lewis was behind Kimi when they crossed the line. Watch the video on youtube and you'll see Lewis is actually along side him with his front tyre behind Kimis front tyre.

Another problem is to define in this instant what an advantage is. It was wet, both cars where on slicks and in the wet, on slicks, the McLaren is by far the better car. There are a lot more points to this than meet the eye or Youtube. Also what is the definition of behind. If someone is in front, then are you not behind, but then how behind is behind. Also in the Massa pit lane incident, the reason given for no action was it would have made no difference to the race, what is the difference here, Kimi went off all by himself?

Matt

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Reply #50 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:07pm

C Offline
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There's also a simple way to stop this happening again.

Use proper kerbs, and get rid of the stupid tarmac run offs. Make it impossible to cut the track without losing out significantly. The drivers then have to take the responsibility of avoiding each other, as Damon Hill and Schumacher didn't at Adelaide in 1994!

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Reply #51 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:12pm

CD. Ex Member

C wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

There's also a simple way to stop this happening again.

Use proper kerbs, and get rid of the stupid tarmac run offs. Make it impossible to cut the track without losing out significantly. The drivers then have to take the responsibility of avoiding each other, as Damon Hill and Schumacher didn't at Adelaide in 1994!

Sounds good, bouncing across the saw-toothed kerbs, bits of bodywork flying off....

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Reply #52 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:18pm

eno Offline
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Quote:

C wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

There's also a simple way to stop this happening again.

Use proper kerbs, and get rid of the stupid tarmac run offs. Make it impossible to cut the track without losing out significantly. The drivers then have to take the responsibility of avoiding each other, as Damon Hill and Schumacher didn't at Adelaide in 1994!

Sounds good, bouncing across the saw-toothed kerbs, bits of bodywork flying off....

You don't need saw toothed kerbs ...... just a great big gravel trap ..... cut the corner and beach yourself. Grin

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Reply #53 - Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:28pm

C Offline
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eno wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

C wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

There's also a simple way to stop this happening again.

Use proper kerbs, and get rid of the stupid tarmac run offs. Make it impossible to cut the track without losing out significantly. The drivers then have to take the responsibility of avoiding each other, as Damon Hill and Schumacher didn't at Adelaide in 1994!

Sounds good, bouncing across the saw-toothed kerbs, bits of bodywork flying off....

You don't need saw toothed kerbs ...... just a great big gravel trap ..... cut the corner and beach yourself. Grin

Used to work for Prost and Senna. No reason why it can't work for the more "immature" generation of drivers today.

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Reply #54 - Sep 9^th, 2008 at 9:14am

TSC. Offline
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A totally BS decision by the stewards if you ask me.

Anyway, if anybody would like to see some excellent footage from the last couple of laps: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

There's a petition here aswell, over 21,000 signatures so far: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?belgp08

Grin

TSC.

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Reply #55 - Sep 9^th, 2008 at 10:58am

expat Offline
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Craig. wrote on Sep 8^th, 2008 at 3:34pm:

This is from Massa.
Quote:

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained. If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter.

If what he says is true about the drivers meetings, then the stewards at least have a fair argument and Mclaren could struggle to win the appeal.
Also Mclaren are arguing that Lewis was behind Kimi when they crossed the line. Watch the video on youtube and you'll see Lewis is actually along side him with his front tyre behind Kimis front tyre.

TSC. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2008 at 9:14am:

A totally BS decision by the stewards if you ask me.

Anyway, if anybody would like to see some excellent footage from the last couple of laps: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport.

I don't know what crossing the start/finish line has to do with this. Lewis let Kimi by. To do that the Ferrari must have been traveling faster than the McLaren. So the McLaren by default would have to have sped up, hardly an advantage. From the in car video it is clear to see that at frame 1:06 the McLaren is behind the Ferrari. Again how do you define an advantage when in the rain on slicks, the Mc Laren is by far the better car over the Ferrari.

Matt

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Reply #56 - Sep 10^th, 2008 at 2:45pm

The Ruptured Duck Offline
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I just spent 30 minutes looking at the hamilton/raikkonen incident on my dvr.

Regarding Massas "optimistic" comments: The move was not that optimistic, hamilton was directly behind kimi before the chicane, and he gave up about the same amount of road after the chicane

Regarding the slipstream: Lewis was to the left of the ferrari and not directly in the slipstream on the start finish strait and the only reason he was able to get in front of Kimi was by braking later.

I'm trying to be as non biased as possible, but I suppose that we all have a way of seeing what we want to see, as I have noticed in a few individuals here

"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&

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Reply #57 - Sep 11^th, 2008 at 5:16am

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The Stewards almost scored me some good points from Spa, if only Lewis had been a bit quicker and finished second Roll Eyes

. Anyhow, awful decision if you ask me.
Guys, are we not having a guess at this weekends Italian GP? Just in case I'm blind and I've missed it:

Massa
Kimi
Lewis

Massa a cert for the tital now I reckon.

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