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Throttle Mixture Tutorial (Read 5096 times)
Aug 4th, 2008 at 1:31am

tcco94   Offline
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Im thinking about buying the Saitek Pro Flight System but before I do is there a tutorial youtube, website or anywhere where I can get a tutorial on how to use the mixtures and such.

Thanks Wink
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 5th, 2008 at 10:32am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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As soon as I get caught up on some model projects.. I'm going to add some lessons re: complex (gear/flaps/constant-speed prop) planes.. and  instrument flight training...
 
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Reply #2 - Aug 6th, 2008 at 1:58am

tcco94   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Aug 5th, 2008 at 10:32am:
As soon as I get caught up on some model projects.. I'm going to add some lessons re: complex (gear/flaps/constant-speed prop) planes.. and  instrument flight training...

Awesome!  Cheesy
No rush, I should be getting the yoke and throttle by christmas but I thought I would learn before.
Just contact me when its out..
Thanks!  Cool
 
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Reply #3 - Aug 7th, 2008 at 10:52am

Anxyous   Offline
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Start using the mixture when at around 2000 feet or above in FS.

Lean (pull the mixture back) until the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) peaks, then push it forward a little notch.
 

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Reply #4 - Aug 7th, 2008 at 3:26pm

C   Offline
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Anxyous wrote on Aug 7th, 2008 at 10:52am:
Start using the mixture when at around 2000 feet or above in FS.

Lean (pull the mixture back) until the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) peaks, then push it forward a little notch.


All depends on the aeroplane being used. Smiley
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 7th, 2008 at 8:13pm

tcco94   Offline
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Anxyous wrote on Aug 7th, 2008 at 10:52am:
Start using the mixture when at around 2000 feet or above in FS.

Lean (pull the mixture back) until the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) peaks, then push it forward a little notch.

Where do I find the EGT?
 
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Reply #6 - Aug 8th, 2008 at 11:45am

Anxyous   Offline
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There'll be a gauge, near the tachometer (RPM) and the like, that reads EGT.

On some planes, it'll be a combined gauge with two needles, one showing EGT, and another something else.
 

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Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2008 at 1:20pm

C   Offline
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Anxyous wrote on Aug 8th, 2008 at 11:45am:
On some planes, it'll be a combined gauge with two needles, one showing EGT, and another something else.



Manifold pressure. Smiley Ignore that, see below... Grin
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2008 at 8:48am by C »  
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Reply #8 - Aug 8th, 2008 at 2:10pm

Anxyous   Offline
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I'll quote you on this one:

"All depends on the aeroplane being used."

Tongue
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 9th, 2008 at 8:25am

Anxyous   Offline
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I've seen oil temp more often....

NVM though Tongue
 

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Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2008 at 8:50am

C   Offline
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Anxyous wrote on Aug 9th, 2008 at 8:25am:
I've seen oil temp more often....

NVM though Tongue


You're quite right. Oil temp/EGT are combined most often; I was thinking of a split MP/Fuel flow gauge.

But then again I haven't flown a piston aircraft for 18 months! Grin
 
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Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2008 at 10:06am

Anxyous   Offline
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Well that would explain it Tongue
 

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Reply #12 - Aug 9th, 2008 at 7:59pm

beaky   Offline
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A fair general rule of thumb, which works on any piston airplane with a tachometer, is to "lean for best power". In other words, back off the mixture until you see a slight increase in power, then stop when you see  the power level off.

That's the method I usually use in RL, as I don't always get a plane with an EGT. Seems to work OK.

Some engines may not really like that method, so if there is an EGT, it's best to use that (I guess), or in the absence of an EGT, use the tach but keep an eye on the engine temps (oil temp, cylinder head temp if available).
 

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Reply #13 - Aug 9th, 2008 at 9:09pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I rarely get single engine piston aircraft to an altitude where precise leaning is all that critical, as far as power goes. I'm alway shooting for that sweet-spot where fuel-econmomy meets not fouling a plug  Cheesy

Anything under 3000msl and I just back the mixture out a little.. kinda in one motion as I reduce power and am trimming the elevator.

At higher altitudes I use a method similar to Rotty's... SLOWY lean until there's an audible drop in RPM (watching the tach too), and then  richen a couple twists.

In MSFS, it's really weird (and unrealistic), but you can lean by peaking the fuel flow... and then lean a hair more  Roll Eyes

Edit :  However.. the Goose has an accurate and responsive EGT gauge (digital).. and can be used for relaistic leaning.
 
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Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:51am

tcco94   Offline
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Well my Grandpa is getting his yoke, throttle, and rudder pedals shipped to him right now. I wont have mine till Christmas but he said he would let me borrow them for a month so ill have them all October I might have to wait on a tutorial becuase im so off  Grin.

Undecided
 
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Reply #15 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:11pm

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So I should takeoff with a lean mixture and then richen as I gain altitude?

You see, I flew tha Baron 58 recently with the mixture lever full forward and climed to 7,000 feet. But the best speed it could summon was 140 kts. I only moved the mixture back a couple of notches and still 140 kts was the best I could squeez. I read elsewhere that the Baron's cruising speed should be 200 kts...

Could that be the problem?
 

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Reply #16 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 1:00pm

Anxyous   Offline
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Most likely...

200 knots is a bit optimistic though, you probably won't get more than 185 KIAS out of it.

Lean the mixture correctly (pull out until the EGT peaks, then forward a notch).

And check the rest of the plane, cowl flaps should be closed, gear and flaps up.
 

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Reply #17 - Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:35am

CraigG   Offline
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As long as Santa Claus is providing this eqipment, you might ask for the new switch panel Saitek is shipping this holiday season also.  Wink
Thanks for the tips, all!
 
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Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 2:53am

tcco94   Offline
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CraigG wrote on Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:35am:
As long as Santa Claus is providing this eqipment, you might ask for the new switch panel Saitek is shipping this holiday season also.  Wink
Thanks for the tips, all!

I want that Switch Panel also
Its cheap for a small panel but there already selling it out.  Wink
 
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Reply #19 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 2:56am

tcco94   Offline
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Okay well my grandpa let me use his new yoke, throttle, and rudder pedals and after reading you guys above I think I got the Mixture but I might have to read more about it but how does the prop work (the blue one)

Thanks Wink
 
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Reply #20 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 9:55am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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tcco94 wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 2:56am:
Okay well my grandpa let me use his new yoke, throttle, and rudder pedals and after reading you guys above I think I got the Mixture but I might have to read more about it but how does the prop work (the blue one)

Thanks Wink



http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1212879811

Smiley
 
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Reply #21 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 9:09pm

Romflyer   Offline
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"So I should takeoff with a lean mixture and then richen as I gain altitude?"
The exact opposite. Full rich(forward) for take-off, and lean out at cruising altitude(above3000ft)
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 7:47pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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If that model is accurate (and I believe it is, because Liberty gave our club a FS9 version when we bought a Real Liberty XL2).. It will have a "modified" mixture control. Individual cylinder mixtures (along with timing) are controled by the' FADEC' system... Trying to make FADEC work within the constraints of the MSFS flight model, is probably some form of "auto-mixture". That's why it's seems weird.
 
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Reply #23 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 7:49pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Oops.. sorry.. I forgot to answer your question.  Just lean it like normal..  Lean until the temperature peaks.. and then richen slightly.
 
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Reply #24 - Dec 31st, 2008 at 9:41pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The Liberty has a fixed prop.. and funny you ask.. if you search the photo forum.. you'll see pictures of ours after a bounced landing and prop-strike... AND I posted something about the night when the prop came OFF !!!   My mentor was flying an approach into KOSU.. at NIGHT and the prop broke off, 5 miles out !


Yeah.. it's a blast to fly..  I'm just not crazy about the finger brakes..
 
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Reply #25 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:12pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Yeah.. it's kinda like a jinxed airframe to me.

I wasn't in the Liberty when the prop came off. I did get to inspect the wreckage though..  All of the studs that secure the prop were sheared off clean.. so we're thinking he hit a BIG bird. The prop never touched the wings or fuselage... months later, it was recovered in a farm field (mangled beyond being useful evidence).

I got to listen to the tower tapes. The tower guy was visibly shaken (we all know each other pretty well), but my mentor was almost humorously calm.. "Umm tower.... I got a mayday here"..

He said he just looked for the darkest spot on the ground and aimed for it. Turned out he landed in a corn field, flying JUST under some power lines.. Later talking to the tower by cell phone, as a copter guided the ambulance to the scene. He had a female passenger with him.. nobody was injured at all..

 
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Reply #26 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:15pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The finger brakes are right near the throttle..  Meaning that you have one less hand while taxiing... and it's a tricky finger dance to modulate the throttle AND apply differential brakes for steering (I forgot to nebtion that the nose wheel casters.. so the only low-speed ground steering IS those brakes).

It's not my favorite airplane..lol
 
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Reply #27 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:25pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:15pm:
The finger brakes are right near the throttle..  Meaning that you have one less hand while taxiing... and it's a tricky finger dance to modulate the throttle AND apply differential brakes for steering (I forgot to nebtion that the nose wheel casters.. so the only low-speed ground steering IS those brakes).

It's not my favorite airplane..lol



Here are the posts:

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1165110558/0

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1185314111/5#5
 
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Reply #28 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 11:22am

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Is managing cowl flaps anywhere in these threads? Is there a rule of thumb regarding these devices?
 
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Reply #29 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 12:40pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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DenisH wrote on Oct 15th, 2009 at 11:22am:
Is managing cowl flaps anywhere in these threads? Is there a rule of thumb regarding these devices?


Wide open on the ground..  Then it becomes aircraft dependent. For most small props, it's wide open for takeoff and climb too.. and then varying degrees of closed depending on airspeed and OAT.. keeping an eye on the CHT.
 
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Reply #30 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 1:36pm
SeanTK   Ex Member

 
Cowl flaps: In my experience....

Fully open = on the ground, climbing, final approach.

Varying degrees of closure/fully closed = cruise flight, descent until lined up on final.

Mixture: you can fiddle with the CHT needles to accomplish a specific temperature goal, or just lean it until the engine roughens/slows then bump it up a tad.
Didn't read through to see if it is mentioned, but it is a good idea to lean the mixture when taxiing/operating on ground at low power settings so you don't allow an excessive carbon buildup to foul the plugs.(Keeping the rpms at at least 1000 also contributes to this practice) Just remember to go full rich for takeoff, keep it full until around 3000 ft (unless your field is at high altitude), and then full rich when landing.
 
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Reply #31 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 1:44pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
Mixture: you can fiddle with the CHT needles to accomplish a specific temperature


I think you mean EGT.  CHT lags far too much for mixture reference.
 
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Reply #32 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 2:01pm
SeanTK   Ex Member

 
Yeah.  Grin The brain wasn't fully functional when I wrote that.

"Let's see...a three letter acronym that is near the engine gauges.....this one sounds good."
Wink
 
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Reply #33 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 8:59pm

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Very good thread.  A thing I was taught, a long time ago.  Lean for max turns on one mag - when you switch back to both, it'll be just right  Smiley.  Any takeoff above 1000', try the mixture to see if anything good happens.
 

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THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

                                                            
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Reply #34 - Oct 18th, 2009 at 3:55pm

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Most FSX aircraft that have cowl flaps don't actually do anything with them.  Sure, there's a knob, but it doesn't do anything.  Brett's C310 is one of the one's that does model them.  If you leave them closed on the ground it gets downright hot under the cowlings.
 
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Reply #35 - Nov 23rd, 2009 at 7:29pm

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I'm constantly reminded that my engine (s) are losing power because  of mixture. My Q is: How does one know when the mix is lean enough? I've noticed that if you press "Cntrl-D" the mixture control slides all the way  to lean regardless of the altitude.  (I think it's contrl D but I forget at the moment what buttons you click).
 
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Reply #36 - Nov 24th, 2009 at 5:16am

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DenisH wrote on Nov 23rd, 2009 at 7:29pm:
I'm constantly reminded that my engine (s) are losing power because  of mixture. My Q is: How does one know when the mix is lean enough? I've noticed that if you press "Cntrl-D" the mixture control slides all the way  to lean regardless of the altitude.  (I think it's contrl D but I forget at the moment what buttons you click).


Lean the Mixture very gradually...(Grab hold of the Mix Knob with the Mouse)....listen to the engine revs...watch the tacho'...be careful...or the engine will stop!

As soon as the engine starts to cough, splutter, and run rough, slightly richen the Mixture until it runs smooth again.
That will deliver the most power to the Engine.

On most Piston Props the Mixture must be wakened when above 5,000 Feet ASL for efficient running.

If taking off from an Airfield located above 5,000 Feet ASL the Mix must be weakened as above, to ensure a full-power take-off...Wink...!

Note: Don't forget to apply Full Rich when descending below 5,000 Feet ASL, and/or landing, to regain power, and to keep the engine cool with liquid fuel, and prevent overheating. (Engines run hot on a weak Mixture!)

Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004....and a Bike with four Carburettors!... Grin...!

Mixture:
Road vehicles require a rich Mix for starting and a weak Mix for running.
Air-Cooled Aero Engines require a Rich Mix to develop full power for running at low levels, and  also to prevent overheating....(the Liquid Fuel helps to cool the engine).
 

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