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Gear Drag. (Read 659 times)
Jun 25
th
, 2008 at 1:38pm
Dickert
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Colonel
Does it ever fly fast
enough?
Ontario Canada
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Posts: 170
I can’t get the Gear Drag set.
First I used FSEdit to set up my aircraft. The result has been mostly ok, but for high altitude pitch oscillation, and the fact that when I drop the gear, there is no drag effect (should slow down and pitch down). It also would be nice to add more drag to the flaps, which is something FSEdit also has no option for.
I purchased AirWrench to set these things but the result was F%^en weird. I got the gear drag I wanted but the stall speed increased by 20KIAS, the roll rate slowed down completely, max speed decreased by Mach .2, the stab would flutter in a high speed dive, the pitch oscillation stopped but was replace by Yaw oscillation. The AirWrench save flew completely worse than the FSEdit save.
Then tried AirEd with a bit of hesitation since many of the numbers shown in AirEd are not what I loaded in FSEdit (can’t understand that one). The table in AirEd for the Cdg Drag Coefficient for the gear had a figure of 49, even though there was no drag in the simulation. Ok, I tried increasing it to 100??? And loaded my aircraft for a test flight. The aircraft flew no different than with FSEdit and with no gear drag again!!
So what’s the deal with these programs? And how do you know which is right?
When I was a kid building model aircraft, I’d balance the aircraft and fly it. When I wanted to change how it flew, I’d cut some area off the wing, or do some other physical change. Now with a virtual aircraft doing all this should be easier, but these programs don’t line up in their effect. So now what???
Harold
Ps, the aircraft is at www.dickert.ca/swift
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Reply #1 -
Jun 25
th
, 2008 at 4:16pm
CAFedm
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Between CYXD & CYEG, Alberta
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I always use AirEd for airfile tweakage...it's logical to want to use the actual (or perceived) values where these are available, e.g., drag coefficients, but I found that it is better (for me anyway) to test and retest the aircraft, adjusting the figures gently until something close to the desired effect is found. For my own concept aircraft, I had originally entered all the "proper" lift and control surfaces carefully calculated with respect to the aircraft's design, and it wouldn't fly, despite having a configuration similar to any other modern combat jet. Lack of FBW may have something to do with that...anyway, getting back to the start of this reply, I found that a noticeable (although not powerful) effect with gear drag was achieved by entering a value of 102. There is also an entry available for gear pitch effect under the same section (1101). Also, changing one entry often affects others, so it may be necessary to modify one or more other items in addition to the one you are trying to correct. Good luck
Brian
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Reply #2 -
Jun 27
th
, 2008 at 11:47am
Dickert
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Colonel
Does it ever fly fast
enough?
Ontario Canada
Gender:
Posts: 170
I tried that entry in AirEd and it had no effect. With AirWrench the aircraft flew like shit, So I want to stick with the Air File generated with FSEdit. But, is there any way to add Gear Drag in the CFG File???
It really sucks that Microsoft People are not involved in this. It would be easy for them to bring out an updated version of their editor.
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Reply #3 -
Jun 27
th
, 2008 at 1:46pm
microlight
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It's a bird...
Southern UK
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Harold,
FSEdit is one of the worst pieces of FS software I've ever come across! I agree with CAFedm and have used AirEd for the last few years and would recommend that you stick with it.
The following might help you with setting the gear drag setting. If you look in section 1101 Primary Aerodynamics, you'll see a number of different sections: the first is Misc., the second is G limits, and the third is Drag. The third entry in this section is for Landing Gear, which for my FD for the 737 Experience I set at 66. To give you a feel for other settings, the default FS9 Cessna 172 has a setting of 14 and the default 747 is set at 51.
My advice? Double the landing gear drag figure until it makes a noticeable difference, and then tune from there.
Which plane are you trying to modify?
BAe ATP for FS9 now available!
www.enigmasim.com
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Jun 27
th
, 2008 at 8:07pm
Travis
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Cannot find REALITY.SYS.
Universe halted.
Dripping Springs, TX
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Harold, I know what you mean about AirWrench. I bought it myself, and then figured out a glitch: when you load the aircraft into AirWrench, the program adjusts it so that all factors will work in harmony, instead of some parts conflicting with each other's readout. I still haven't figured out what parts conflict with each other, but my model seems to have evened itself out. If I were you, I'd stick with it and see if you can make AW work.
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Reply #5 -
Jun 27
th
, 2008 at 11:40pm
Dickert
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Colonel
Does it ever fly fast
enough?
Ontario Canada
Gender:
Posts: 170
The aircraft I am trying to modify (actually still designing) is my own design, the HD –1 Swift. Check it out at
www.dickert.ca/swift
or here in the Download pages MAIN> FS2004>CIVIL JETS. It is still a work in progress but complete enough to have a blast with, so I made it available to people. I still need to get the Virtual Cockpit working but am having problems with Gmax on that issue. Also, I only got a few of the textures mapped so far.
The Flight Dynamics file is also my own design. I started working with FSEdit before I learned about the other programs available, and have managed to get the aircraft flying the way I envisioned with a handful of exceptions.
1) It is still pitch sensitive at vary high altitude, but real aircraft also behave this way. I have not figured out how to make it more stable.
2) Idle thrust is a problem. All these flight dynamics programs allow a designer to load max thrust but do not also allow you to specify an idle thrust. Idle thrust is simply a factor of max. My aircraft has such a radical ratio of thrust to weight that it will not slow down enough, making for a long landing approach, and difficult landing. The only suggestion people have given me is to reduce max thrust, which is something I do not want to do.
3) There is no way to control the amount of speed brakes applied. The simulation does not recognize the difference between speed brakes, spoilers, ground spoilers and spoilerons. I have checked the box for spoilerons, but this setting makes the aircraft’s speed brakes deploy when they should not. Optimally I would want a control for various amounts of speed brake deployment, with the spoilers deploying near the end of the control leavers movement. The spoilerons are separate and should deploy with aileron movement. When on landing approach, the speed brakes need to be deployed to get the aircraft to slow down. I could use a higher drag setting there. The spoilers would be available for fine adjustments of approach angle and speed when thrust is already at idle. Both the spoilers and spoilerons should pop out to full deployment at the point of touch down on landing (acting as ground spoilers at the point of WOW – weight on wheels) preventing a bounced landing just like on a full sized jet. The next thing about all these drag devises including flaps, is that in the case of a go-around, they should all retract with thrust leave movement above some fixed setting (85% thrust for example would mean, you want to get way from the ground, so tuck everything in). I guess this will need some programming. Any takers out there?
4) Gear drag. There is non as the flight dynamics file currents is. When I open the file in AirEd, it shows a figure of 49 in section 1101 Primary Aerodynamics box that “Microlight” is talking about, yet the gear deployment has no effect on speed. I doubled the number and still, there was no effect. I added drag in AirWrench and the gear drag appeared but the aircraft flew like a bag of dirt, with a whole host of other difficulties.
5) As an alternative to less idle thrust, I thought adding drag to the spoilers, gear, and flaps would give me the shorter landing performance I envisioned. Current speed over the fence is 100 KIAS, with a touch down speed of 90 KIAS, which I think is quite reasonable considering I land the CRJ 200 and CRJ 705 at speeds of 130KIS to 145KIAS in real life depending on landing weight. The problem is that there is so much thrust at idle on my aircraft, that you still need 10,000ft to slow down to a stop. AirED didn’t have an effect on this. HELP!!! I’d love someone to download the aircraft and play with the file to help me out with this.
So at the current state of development, I have an aircraft with very snappy performance that goes like a bat out of hell (which is what I want), but with these lingering problems. It is designed to be the antithesis of an airliner or jet fighter. It’s designed to thumb your nose at ATC, for highspeed contour flying in the Mountains, and to break virtual windows.
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Reply #6 -
Jun 28
th
, 2008 at 4:03am
Travis
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Colonel
Cannot find REALITY.SYS.
Universe halted.
Dripping Springs, TX
Gender:
Posts: 4515
With the spoiler, etc, you're gonna need XML programming with gauges on the panel. That's the only way of doing what you're talking about right now. As for opening spoilers in increments, if you include a lever in the VC for spoilers, people can adjust them as necessary. Program the spoilers themselves to pop out at the end of the animation sequence (about 76-100 frames), and everything else to open and then close in increments just like that. (0-25, 6-50, 51-75, etc) That will take care of the visual issue of that, and the spoiler effect will increase the farther they move the handle.
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Reply #7 -
Jun 28
th
, 2008 at 6:53am
microlight
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It's a bird...
Southern UK
Gender:
Posts: 2236
Harold,
I'll download the plane, have a look at the FD and see what I can suggest.
EDIT: Just had a look, and tried a few things. Sorry, but I agree with the others who have suggested that you reduce max thrust. Biggest issue is that it has such a high thrust/weight ratio that even with the ground brakes on at idle, the plane still moves forward on the ground (you can almost hear the tyres squealing!) You can even take off at idle with only a burst of throttle to get the ground speed up, and then reducing it again. It will climb at idle thrust, at around 2000 fpm! In level flight at idle thrust, the speed stabilises at around 340kts, so it's no wonder that you're having to use extreme drag to slow the plane down enough to land it. I'll have a play to see if I can come up with any suggestions. (I like the pilot's see-through shirt, however!!)
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Last Edit: Jun 28
th
, 2008 at 11:05am by microlight
»
BAe ATP for FS9 now available!
www.enigmasim.com
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