I would like to add one thing, RudeandRude You are not Moron , We do not consider moron anybuddy ,well exept those whos been in this microsoft flight simulator for almost a decade ,with us and ask How do I install a plane You are in very good hands here ,feel welcome ,follow the rules, ,and we are going to help you in anything you need to know in MSFSX..

Ive been away for the past day and a half but I'l get back into it tonight.  I definitely just need practice. 

Is there anywhere in the game that shows you how many hours you;ve logged total?

I know I need to have patience but holy crap this is frustrating.  I just did the training mission where I am first flying the Jetliner.  I'm in mid-flight and struggling with my climb/decent the entire 20 minutes.  One second I'm descending at 1200 feet per minute, I click one tiny click trim up and within 15 seconds I'm climbing at 1200 feet per second.

For some reason in this jet when I leave the stick at neutral position I just start climbing at a 30 degree climb pretty much right after takeoff, with all flaps at normal.  I have to push the stick almost all the way up (nose down) just to keep level flight.  Is that normal in a Bombardier CRJ700 ?

RudeandRude wrote on Feb 8^th, 2008 at 7:32pm:


It's best to stick with the cessna until you get the hang of it unless you just want to burn around in jets,...... you'll learn more in a slower plane, things don't happen so fast.

Your up and down meanderings are normal, it's difficult to establish a constant climb rate, particularly on jets.

The problem is trim, you still need lots of practice, and when I saw you post a couple days back after a few minutes of trying, you said "I definitely understand trim" ...... I knew you had a ways to go

Let's put it into perspective...... It tooks me YEARS to get my Airline pilot's license in Flight Simulator. So if you are looking for a one week wonder, this is probably the wrong game for you.

To understand trim, you need to appreciate the dynamics of flight and how planes actually fly, this may appear simple at first, but there are really a lot of things to consider, more than the layman, or even many pilots realise.

I won't scare you with stories of "getting behind the drag curve" but there is a lot about aviation that the novice cannot possibly be aware of.

With trim, the dynamics are mainly concerned with relationships between power and pitch settings, which in turn affects airspeed.

Those three things are under your control and you CAN balance the plane without trim, albeit, only at a very limited pitch and speed range.

Trim allows you to fly a balanced aircraft at various speed and pitch settings. When you pitch, you will alter speed unless you alter power setting.

When you alter power setting, you will alter the pitch angle. Airspeed is a function of the other two elements.

If you see the speed increasing, the pitch will climb, because the wing produces more lift, and the opposite occurs if you reduce speed.

As far as Flight Sim concerns you as a noob pilot, you only need to use the trim for balance at first, that is enough.


Here is an exercise for you.

Try a Free Flight of your choice, level out at 3000'ft and 110kts in the plain old Cessna 172. Trim until you can release the stick and the plane holds 3000'steady, use power adjustments to maintain 110kts, trimming for level flight as required.

This could take a while, just practice it until you can repeat it on demand. Use the Variometer to determine your rate of climb or sink and that can be a guide to help you know if you are flying perfectly level.

Repeat the exercise but instead of 110kts, use an engine rpm setting as a constant, say, 2200rpm.

Note the effect of speed and power changes on your attitude once trimmed for level flight.

From here, you can experiment with a myriad of flap settings, power settings, pitch angles etc, to see how they all affect trim.

There is a correct trim for every situation (within normal flight envelopes).

You can leave the trim alone and climb up, and then adjust power to fly level, the plane will be in "level flight trim" for that power setting.

RudeandRude wrote on Feb 8^th, 2008 at 9:58pm:


Hit ALT in flight and you'll see a menu bar appear at top of screen, select options/Flight Videos

Edit:
A note on Autopilot. The autopilot will trim the aircraft normally. Using autopilot will not allow you to consider the effects or understand trim, leave it off during the learning stage until you master the "Art of Trimming" 

Hey Congo...  when are we gonna see you in the Sim Flight Training ?

Good discussions going on there... All the parts (1-7) are posted now... and we'll be doing FSX shared-cockpit checkrides soon.  

On that note, I'm compelled to point out a couple things. I know what you were trying to say, but wording can be critical at this point in the learning curve.

Quote:


If you just SEE airspeed increasing, and haven't changed the power setting; you're definately descending. If  YOU  increase the power setting from level flight, airspeed will initially rise and THAT will cause a slight pitch up, and a gain in altitude, and then the airspeed will come back down. Conversely, if you just SEE the airspeed decreasing (with no power change), that means you're climbing.

When you say, "reduce speed", that confuses me too. If you mean to reduce power, then yes; airspeed will drop off a bit, but not much if that's all you do.. because you'll start descending.

The reason this is confusing when talking about trimming ?  Consider that you're flying along , pitching/trimmimg to stay level, not touching the throttle. If the airspeed starts decreasing, that means you're climbing... and if the airspeed increases, and that means you're descending. That's why the airspeed indicator is your first reference, and the vertical speed indicator (variometer ?) is your last reference for trimming.. mainly because it's usually several seconds behind what's really happening and you can end up chasing it.

Your primary instruments for pitching/trimming  (assuming a fixed power setting) are the altimeter and the airspeed indicator. Airspeed indicator first and foremost when climbing (pitching for best rate of climb).... Altimeter first and foremost when leveling off (getting it to stop on the desired altitude, and then using the airspeed indicator to determine when to reduce to cruise power)... THEN, if need be, fine tuning the trim by the vertical speed indicator.

Now.... lol .. if we're all as confused as I am... go back to something Congo said earlier, because it's the basic truth..

Quote:


Carve that in stone..  You aren't supposed to "fly" with the trim, at all  

Rude,

Click 'Learning Center', then the "Lessons" tab at the top, and start doing all the courses. You mentioned before that you were doing these, but if you really did them, it does tell you how to navigate your way both visually and with instruments. 

Just spend some time with those built-in courses, (and read the ground school!). They really are as close as you can get to having a flight instructor without paying for one 

Brett_Henderson wrote on Feb 9^th, 2008 at 12:14am:


I'll have a look at the sim training if I get time Brett, thanks for the invite.

I knew when I posted that blog that I'd get into trouble with it

You see, I do know my stuff, but communicating it quickly into text is not my forte, it takes me eons to write a simple airplane install "how-to", let alone explain the finer points of trimming an aircraft. I apologise for my brevity and inaccuracies. I was frantically trying to get that VP-2 aircraft mod finished today so I can move on to more important projects.

Set in stone huh? Well, in the real world, things are not always that way. You can hit a thermal or orographic or shear wave and fly into lift that will give an airspeed increase or decrease when you hit sink, but that's not what I was referring to. I meant that a power increase had not taken effect as yet, so you would see the speed and attitude rising.

Most of my real life flying is in unpowered sailplanes, so pitch is speed control, not power settings, I tend to think in terms of pure aerodynamics without the power equation at first, then I need to think of thrust adjustment, because it's not a luxury I'm used to, despite my thousands of hours simming powered planes. So, you see, I need to consider things more carefully before commenting  

I don't want to get caught up in the semantics, it's counter productive so I'll butt out.

You are quite correct of course in pointing out the importance of learning the basics correctly without me adding more confusion into the bargain.

My first flight instructor was well aware of this phenomenon of first learned knowledge, it's primal and tends to stick like glue. Best not to form bad habits early.

I made a comment about flying on trim earlier as well, I should not have done that. It's ok for us old timers who have hundreds or thousands of hours on type, we know a notch of trim here or there will produce a certain effect, but your right in advising not to fly on trim.

I have probably trained around thirty people on simulators, and about half that many in aircraft once they passed their basic training in gliders. (I was sort of our club's "Cross country coach" in an unofficial capacity, all the students wanted to soar for hours like me lol).

It's a lot easier to do in real life where the effects are felt and seen in the real world. It's also amazing to see what turns up in the students heads, they can have some BAD misconceptions about certain aspects of flight that weren't picked up in their basic training.

Just as a point of interest, my left hand rarely leaves the trim knob on sailplane flights Brett, I look at trim as a throttle of sorts. Wierd huh? I've even told passengers that the green knob is the throttle, and then they start looking around for an engine